Williams sisters

by Phil 90 Replies latest jw friends

asleif_dufansdottir

So you think that other JWs look to the Williams as role models, eh? Sorta like they do Michael Jackson and Prince, huh?

Don't you think it's rather bizarre how most JWs have this love/hate relationship with the fact that these people are supposed to be JWs (past tense in MJ's case)?? On one hand it makes the religion more appealing to the average person, but on the other, it is soooo far removed from approved behavior that it makes them cringe.
Don't you think that every time a fan of one of the above (again, excluding MJ) gets called on in service, the JW who's calling on them milks it for all it's worth? "Oh yes, we're 'normal.' We're not a cult. See? We have members who have a life." The Society knows it's a marketing tool.
Why else would these people get away with dress and behavior that would get Joe or Josephine AveragePublisher df'd so fast your head would spin? Mikey didn't get his chain (publicly) yanked until he made Thriller, which was so obviously beyond the pale that they couldn't let it go.
Yet, as has been mentioned, it's a 2-edged sword for the JWs...let some young brother (or sister!) show up to a congregation gathering in something Prince would wear, or some young sister want to take tennis lessons or some kid want to play in a tennis tournament, or some Sister decides if Sister Williams can get a nose ring so can she (plus it's Biblical)...what would happen? So the JWs can use those celebrities as bait, but they have to be very careful about handling a fan of their who became 'interested', because it would be so obvious so quick that they are not 'normal' JWs.
I love Prince, but I cannot believe the crap he gets away with as a JW. I have a suspicion that, especially in his case, there is someone running 'interference' for him...keeping the more unpleasant aspects of being an 'average' JW away from him, and keeping the more...unusual...aspects of Prince more or less out of the view of the elders (or at least giving them plausible deniability). Strip away the celebrity status and take away the 'buffer' and drop him in some little rural congregation out in the sticks with some of the more self-righteous and power-hungry control-freak elders many on this board have had to deal with, and I don't think he would have ever become a JW, much less have stayed one as long as he has.
I never ceased to be amazed when I hear about musicians who are JWs...who make music that I have no doubt a member of my old cong would have been strenuously counseled for listening to (much less performing).
LDH

You have some very nasty habits. One of which is believing what others say when it is complimentary of you, but not when it is in criticism. Saying whatever you want to about others.
Yes, as a matter of fact, I do consider myself "in the trenches". My team consists of 12 people, TWO of whom are active JWs. You think this is a joke, I can assure you it is not.This is as difficult as being in Iraq and wearing a US Marine uniform. Trying to get them to moderate their behavior in certain areas (being bossy without having the authority to do so--thinking they are right about everything when they don't know their ass from a hole in the ground, etc) while not saying ANYTHING that can be construed to be religious harassment is no picnic.
Maybe you should have watched the Wimbledon finals, like I did. Where Venus said her mother told her to "pray to Jehovah" when she was in pain. When Serena thanked "Jehovah" after she won. It doesn't matter what their status is in the congregation, only what the public's perception is of that status. But I wouldn't expect you to understand that.
But perhaps they are Catholics.
You have no extended interaction with co-workers while blithely delivering packages---I do. I have a VERY good grasp on what the public thinks of JWs and Serena and Venus as a whole.
Too bad you won't admit that as long as psuedo-JWs like Venus and Serena are held up as the example of what a good JW youth is--the worse it will be for real JW youth.
Just because YOU say Joel was being unfair to the Williams Sisters doesn't make it so.
Lisa
teejay

>>> You have some very nasty habits.
So do you, Lisa. So do you.
>>> One of which is believing what others say when it is complimentary of you, but not when it is in criticism. Saying whatever you want to about others.
And you don't?
>>> Yes, as a matter of fact, I do consider myself "in the trenches". My team consists of 12 people, TWO of whom are active JWs. This is as difficult as being in Iraq and wearing a US Marine uniform.
Yeah. I'm sure. I heard a professional sports athelete saying something similar about what they did for a living. My opinion? I think you need to get over yourself. Working in an office ain't the same as living in Iraq with your life in constant danger. Sorry, Miss In The Trenches... I know that what you do for a living is vitally important to the peace of he world, but ain't that bad. It's okay for you to think it is, though.
>>> Maybe you should have watched the Wimbledon finals, like I did. Where Venus said her mother told her to "pray to Jehovah" when she was in pain. When Serena thanked "Jehovah" after she won. It doesn't matter what their status is in the congregation, only what the public's perception is of that status.
How do you know I didn't. It WAS televised.
>>> You have no extended interaction with co-workers while blithely delivering packages---I do.
You have a pm.
>>> I have a VERY good grasp on what the public thinks of JWs and Serena and Venus as a whole.
Yeah, and for the past forty years I've been living out in the wilderness, so I have no idea of what non-JWs think of JWs.
>>> Too bad you won't admit that as long as psuedo-JWs like Venus and Serena are held up as the example of what a good JW youth is--the worse it will be for real JW youth.
There's no chance of your being wrong, is there Miss ITT?
>>> Just because YOU say Joel was being unfair to the Williams Sisters doesn't make it so
Doesn't mean it's NOT so, either. Get over yourself, Lisa. It's tiresome.
LDH

Working in an office ain't the same as living in Iraq with your life in constant danger.

Oh really?!?!? I had no idea!!! Have you ever heard of an analogy?!?!?
How do you know I didn't. It WAS televised
Because if you had, you would have never asked the questions you did. Or perhaps your set was on "mute."
Asleif states:
Don't you think that every time a fan of one of the above (again, excluding MJ) gets called on in service, the JW who's calling on them milks it for all it's worth? "Oh yes, we're 'normal.' We're not a cult. See? We have members who have a life." The Society knows it's a marketing tool.
You obviously missed that point.
Are you sure you're not cheering for the Williams girls because they're black, TJ? You would never be guilty of such overt racism, now would you? It's ok,. be honest. My husband is proud of their accomplishments. He also thinks the JWs are full of bullshit. The two do not have to be reconciled. Of course, unlike yourself, he doesn't have anything personally invested in the JWs like, say, a WIFE and KID.
Lisa
Hates explaining the obvious, Class
teejay

>>> Oh really?!?!? I had no idea!!! Have you ever heard of an analogy?!?!?
Tryna do the back-up shuffle, eh? To late to clean it up now, girlfriend!! :D Too, too funny. Got caught in some of your own bullshit, huh? Good for you.
Yeah, I've heard of an analogy. I've heard of silly hyperbole, too. You know... people who think waaaay too much of themselves and their little jobby jobs? People like you? Thinking that they do something as serious as being in the military, working in a real live killing zone. I seem to recall SOMEONE SAYING: "You think this is a joke, I can assure you it is not.This is as difficult as being in Iraq and wearing a US Marine uniform." Thanx for the heads-up... letting me know that the shit you say just might very well be... well... shit.
>>> Because if you had, you would have never asked the questions you did.
Oh, really!? Not a chance that I might have seen it a little differently than you, huh? Get over yourself, Lisa. You ain't the shit. Full of it, maybe, but you ain't the shit.
p.s. Be sure to wear your helmet and boots tomorrow, Miss In The Trenches. Those paper cuts and office politics can be about as tough as a bullet in the head!
asleif_dufansdottir

It doesn't matter what the Williams say they are. The only thing that matters is public perception. The way the whole Venus/Serena issue is going down, it is making other XJWs look like the reason their parents didn't allow such behavior was their personal decision. This is a joke.

Perhaps that's why they're allowed to do it. Maybe the whole reason that there are a few high-profile JWs who are allowed to flaunt "the rules" as we all knew them, is to give weight to the "personal decision", "conscience issue" argument that JWs are so fond of.
We know that 99% of JWs view a "suggestion" from the society as an absolute command from God (even if they don't all follow it strictly to the letter - they at least try to keep that from the attention of the elders)...yet the society dearly loves to hide behind "personal decisions" and "conscience matters" to try to keep from being sued or otherwise held accountable for people dying from blood transfusions or just being p*ssed off that they couldn't play organized sports as a child.
Maybe if there are a few very carefully handled cases of JWs flaunting 'the rules' and not being df'd or announced as bad association, JWs can still pat themselves on the back and tell themselves and the general public that all of us horrible apostates are 'blowing things out of proportion' and 'it's really not that bad.'
Maybe they have the rank and file so well under control that there's very little danger of them behaving like the Williams sisters or Prince, and it's worth the minimal difficulty to have those 'abnormal' ones to point to as an example when us bad ol' apostates are talking about what JWs are 'forced' to do or 'forbidden' to do.
teejay

>>> Are you sure you're not cheering for the Williams girls because they're black, TJ?
What does their (or MY) race have to do WITH ANYTHING? Are you mad? All I asked was: are they baptized JWs. Funny how you haven't answered my question. If you can't, just say so. (you can't, can you?)
>>> You would never be guilty of such overt racism, now would you?
So, I think it's unfair to hold responsible Venus and Serena -- two young women living their lives and minding their own business -- for the wrongdoing of low-life JWs BECAUSE I'M RACIST? Uh... you're making waaay too much sense, Lisa. You really are. I've never seen such insight in my entire life... and I hope I never will again.
>>> My husband is proud of their accomplishments.
So, he's racist too? Is that your point?
>>> He also thinks the JWs are full of bullshit.
So do I. So I'm a racist, right? (You’re confusing me. Is it me or your hubby or us both that you think are racists?)
>>> The two do not have to be reconciled. Of course, unlike yourself, he doesn't have anything personally invested in the JWs like, say, a WIFE and KID.
So, since my wife is a JW and takes my daughter to the meetings, I should hate Venus and Serena (who, BTW, aren't JWs) for their hypocrisy that I don't see or think exists. Good. I see your point now. Makes total sense. ;)
asleif_dufansdottir

Venus and Serena (who, BTW, aren't JWs)

The media keeps reporting that they are. Where does the media get this information? As far as I know (I'm hardly an expert on them), they have not gone out of their way to stop from being referred to as JWs. They have not 'corrected' (again, AFAIK) the media. They make reference to "Jehovah God" on tape. They are hardly going out of their way to not be known as JWs (except for that whole professional sports figure thing).
Is there a difference (for "our" purposes) between an 'active, baptised' JW and someone who was 'raised in the truth and believes it but doesn't follow the rules'? Does the general public understand the fine points of distinction between these two 'types' of JWs (or those who call themselves JWs)?
Maybe they could hide behind their "unbelieving father" when they were younger, but it's pretty obvious that they're adults now and they are behaving in a stunningly untheocratic manner (competition, calling attention to themselves, wearing 'immodest' attire on international tv, not 'buying out the opportune time from worldly pursuits', that whole 'nose ring' thing of mom's) while still allowing themselves to be portrayed as JWs. At a minimum I would expect them to be getting pressure from the elders to publicly dissassociate or find another career path.
Yet they continue to be the poster child for 'what JWs are not supposed to be doing' while still being publicly identified as JWs. Something is rotten in Denmark. I don't blame the Williams themselves. If something fishy is indeed going on, it's the society who's at fault for not seeing to it that the rules apply to all equally (but then, we knew that already).
Cassiline

The Williams sisters are cocky and insular. They're also gorgeous, rich, smart, polite, gifted, well-spoken, huge and improving like mad, and they'd definitely like to get you some reading materials, if you're interested. "We go to rich neighborhoods, poor neighborhoods, everywhere," says Oracene. "People slam doors on us," says Serena, "but that's their problem. We don't take it personally."

They do take it seriously, 4 1/2 hours every week, including the time spent writing letters and cold-calling people. At last week's U.S. Open, Venus, 18, made it to the semifinals and Serena, 16, won her second Grand Slam mixed doubles title in a row, but the work they think is most important is serving up the ways of the Witnesses to other players, coaches and their families. They rush the locker room with their pocket-sized Witness books, pamphlets and copies of The Watchtower magazine. If the player doesn't speak English, they get her a book in a language she does speak.

At first people are a little shocked," says Venus and Serena's mother, Oracene, who has taken them door-to-door since they were babies. "They want to talk about tennis, but we'd rather talk about the Bible."

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/features/1998/weekly/lifeofreilly/0921/
Even if they are not baptized ( which I have no idea if they are), they still claim to be JWs therefore preaching the morals of the faith which they do not follow, i.e. adornment with a flag, etc.
I am a Jehovah's Witness~~ Serena Williams --06-2003
www.wimbledon.org/en_GB/news/interviews/ 2003-06-10/200306101054937676751.html
asleif_dufansdottir

From http://www.asapsports.com/tennis/1998lipton/032398VW.html in a March 1998 interview (yes, this was a long time ago)
Q. You could buy the whole program, make it into a Venus Williams program. I wanted to ask if you feel comfortable talking about this. I know you're a Jehovah's Witness. Do you actively visit and witness? Can you tell me a little bit about that?
VENUS WILLIAMS: Do I actively visit and witness?
Q. I'm not that familiar with that religion.
VENUS WILLIAMS: I understand.
Q. What does that entail for you? What do you do, I guess, to actively be involved in your religion?
VENUS WILLIAMS: Well, we believe -- it's just like tennis. You can't just go once a month and expect your game to be on top. You have to reiterate everything. We believe in good association, association with fellow Witnesses, not becoming too involved with people that don't have the same beliefs and same values that we do. We go to meetings three times a week. They encourage us. You learn there, you learn more, just continue learning until you get a better understanding of things. I guess you are aware that we do house-to-house witnessing. I can't do that at all because I'm on the road. Getting more popular, I don't know if I can go house-to-house. I'm thinking about that. People are going to say, "What about the women?" I'll say, "What about this?" I was thinking about that.
Q. Have you done that a few times?
VENUS WILLIAMS: Yes, ever since I was little. Generally, I can speak to people about it.
(snip)
Q. I would like to get to the religious aspect. You grow up into a family, and this is the religious belief that's already there. So you grow up into something existing. Young people tend to reevaluate, question, challenge beliefs, then maybe accept them or maybe turn into something else. Did you ever go to a period where you actively questioned the set of beliefs that was put in front of you?
VENUS WILLIAMS: Never. Not just because my parents believe, but because I do. I think that some of the reasons why a lot of people say Serena and I were good kids, we're obedient, never going crazy, is because of our beliefs. In the Bible it tells us that disobedient children do not live all their days. I believe that. A lot of times, like, I'm thinking about it, if I was not a Witness, if my parents told me to do something, I was thinking would I do it or not? Would I do what I want to do? The main reason I do is because I want to obey them, because it will be best for me, and because I'm afraid that things won't go right for me. It's God's law. So I do it because of that, too. I mean, I have to. That's how I live my life and how we got our lives.

Williams sisters

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