The Watchtower & the cigarette company (page 10)

Scully

sixy:

So far, there is no evidence that they did anything wrong. The stock showed up on one tax return.
It's unreasonable for anyone to say they should liquidate (and I don't even know if they have snap-your-finger-authority to do that) the trust over one wrong buy.
It's stupid to believe they knew and approved of the purchase.
If you guys were argueing that the WT should not be involved in big business to the extent that investing in the stock market is big business, I could respect your arguements, as they have loudly condemned "christendom" for it's connection to big business.
But you're not argueing that, your argueing that they should be responsible for something it is not reasonble for them to be 100% perfect about.

You know I wuv you hunny and I respect your point of view and your opinion. Having said that, I've also heard the reaction of someone I've known since childhood regarding this investment. As a JW, he was SHOCKED and UTTERLY APPALLED that the WTS had these stocks generating revenue for them. The damage this knowledge can do to a JW's faith in the Organization cannot be underestimated. The average JW believes that the GB can do no wrong. They believe that the Organization's $h!t don't stink. They believe that God is DIRECTING this Organization. The GB, the WTS, the Organization is on such a high pedestal to most JWs, that information like this is like a dagger through their heart.

When you fall from a pedestal like that, it's bound to hurt. Love, Scully

reporter

Did you win anything?

Now, THAT was a control freak. Christian Viewpoint™, like I was trying to tell six-of-nine, is something that is 100% non-negotiable, and, is unreasonably arbitrary and unreasonably enfoced, depending on the ~~control-freak-du-jour~~ prick who's micromanaging your actions. That was a good example.

Scully

reporter:

Did you win anything?

No. My Bible Trained Conscience™ wouldn't permit me to keep the stupid thing. I offered it to a non-JW co-worker. He didn't win anything with it either.

Love, Scully

reporter

Exactly. Would Jehovah and Jesus approve of those investments?

The onus here is a reverse-onus on them to prove themselves squeaky-clean Jehovah's Utensils™, since, after all, they represent Jehovah's Mother™ organization! A little leaven ferments the whole lump.

coffee_black

They go so far as to look into the so called "pagan origins" of everything from birthdays to wind chimes. We had to read labels on food packages to see if they contained the slightest amout of blood. Our lives were put under the microscope.

Yet, here they are profiting from something an average jw would be disfellowshipped for.

Coffee

bringing this to the top again...it's slipping back too far.

BLISSISIGNORANCE

Good show ol' chap...............vital info to confirm to all of us that we have done the right thing leaving that lying, corrupt, filthy organization.

Just another example of their hypocracy and double-standards.

That's precisley my point with their rules re: blood. Who knows if they (GB) accept blood while telling the R&F they can't.

Thanks for the info, much appreciated.

cheers, Bliss

gcc2k

I agree that this is noteworthy (thanks for the bump, I haven't been here in a month or so). However, I also agree with sixofnine and others that there is not enough information here to condemn the WT. If subsequent tax returns show that the WT is still a shareholder, even if indirectly, I'm prepared to add this to my list of WT flaws. But for now, it's possible that they were unaware of the holdings. Was this the first year that the trust was in effect and benefitting the WT?

expatbrit

Hi Gcc2k:

If you don't mind I'll cut and paste from a post above on the questions you asked.

The Trust has existed since at least 1998, as I have the return for that year. I also have the 2001 return, so I've just taken a look at it. There are no holdings of Philip Morris on the 2001 return. This means that those shares were purchased sometime between May 1, 2001 and April 30, 2002. Consequently I don't think the Society can say "we didn't know what we were getting" as an excuse, because they didn't get any Philip Morris shares to start with.

There's been a variety of reaction to this subject. That's fair enough. Different subjects mean different things to different people. For myself, I think this stuff is pretty condemnatory of the WT, or I wouldn't have posted it. But I certainly don't expect a person to say "that's it, no more pioneering, I'm gonna become an apostate!" just because of this thread. I view it as one piece of a very large jigsaw puzzle, and maybe if a few people see this particular piece, it will interest them in looking at enough other pieces until they begin to discern the whole picture of the Watchtower.

Expatbrit

Yizuman

Great work guys!

Yiz

SixofNine

You know I wuv you hunny and I respect your point of view and your opinion. Having said that, I've also heard the reaction of someone I've known since childhood regarding this investment. As a JW, he was SHOCKED and UTTERLY APPALLED that the WTS had these stocks generating revenue for them. The damage this knowledge can do to a JW's faith in the Organization cannot be underestimated. The average JW believes that the GB can do no wrong. They believe that the Organization's $h!t don't stink. They believe that God is DIRECTING this Organization. The GB, the WTS, the Organization is on such a high pedestal to most JWs, that information like this is like a dagger through their heart.

Well see, now you're bitchin' about just what I think you ought to be bitchin' about... the big business connection, sugaplum. The "cigarette company" thing is merely the kind of wicked irony that comes along when people claim to be spotless.

But I certainly don't expect a person to say "that's it, no more pioneering, I'm gonna become an apostate!" just because of this thread. I view it as one piece of a very large jigsaw puzzle, and maybe if a few people see this particular piece, it will interest them in looking at enough other pieces until they begin to discern the whole picture of the Watchtower.

I agree, but frankly, I'd love for someone to decide to go into full time apostacy over this. Wouldn't that be ironic, lol? Hey, it's not like anyone ever became a witness based on logic. I just think that to keep your sanity on this one, you have to keep your valid indignation a few notches below "righteous".

The Watchtower & the cigarette company

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