One simple photo to sum up the heartless and hypocritical attitudes of many Jehovah's Witnesses

by nicolaou 95 Replies latest jw friends

  • Afterburn
    My answer to question 3:- I have no idea if kramer’s anecdotal evidence is true [of JWs] ...

    Giles, this is correct.

    However, I have no reason to doubt [he was referring to what he has seen from JWs] ...

    This is incorrect. The cult literally teaches that doing good to the materially less fortunate is only a very temporary fix, and that time and resources would be better utilized in the preaching and teaching or in funding the worldwide work of Jehovah's Witnesses.

    If you are aware that is what the cult teaches, you have very sound reason to doubt Kramer.

    What's more, if you believe these 5 JWs in the photograph are typical "faithful JWs" who, at very least, follow the encouragement received from the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses while they are in each other's presence, you have every reason in the world to seriously doubt the veracity of Kramer's claim as applicable to JWs. His claim was not specifically about JWs (if you notice carefully). His claim was specifically about "the charities," which explicitly disqualifies JWs as being referenced. Kramer may not know that concept would not include JWs, but whether or not Kramer knows that is immaterial ... because you know it.

    ... although it would require further verification before I could even think about passing judgement on the Jehovah’s Witnesses in that photograph.

    "Further verification" of what? That they have invaded this homeless man's personal space?

    M'kay, if you say so.

    If we assume for a moment that kramer’s anecdotal evidence is true [of JWs] ...

    ... then we're doing so by ignoring the very sound reasons to doubt that he was talking explicitly about what he's seen from local JWs.

    If we assume for a moment that kramer’s anecdotal evidence ... is applicable to the 5 JWs in that photograph ...

    1) Why should anyone assume that Kramer's anecdotal "evidence" that we inexplicably assumed is true of his local JWs, is also applicable to the 5 JWs in that photograph?

    2) If Kramer's anecdote is true of his local JWs—as unlikely as that is—then the 5 JWs in that photograph spoke to the man and brought him coffee, and callously invaded his personal space to engage in their cult propaganda work. The homeless man's choices were more limited than their choices.

    The JWs weren't choosing between rain and crowding under this man's shelter, they were choosing between crowding under this man's shelter and abandoning the work of spreading their cult propaganda on that rainy day. They chose callously. The picture shows that calloused choice they made.

    You guys sure are hasty to judge people for their social media opinions. I recommend you and Drearyweather avoid Facebook and Twitter, dare I say, religiously.

  • Afterburn

    For the record, in the year before I left the cult (2004) the only "charitable" works the religion cited to secure its charitable organization status from the United States government was "Education."

    They do not offer education as a charitable work, rather, they offer propaganda.

    Unless that has changed, they would not be among the charities Kramer referenced. It is a common fallacy for people to assume that JWs are charitable in much the same way as other religions, but JW literature actually scorns other religions for creating "rice Christians" out of the people they are charitable toward.

    It isn't easy, at all, to reconcile life as a JW with chapters four and five of Acts, or with any of the many times Jesus urged charity with material goods.

  • Giles Gray
    Giles Gray

    @ Afterburn.

    Your points have already been covered and debunked in my posts to flipper.

  • Drearyweather

    Please, explain your statement above. Whose life have you seen ruined over claiming, on a social media site, that they knew what was happening in a scene from a picture?

    When I said that lives are ruined, I meant the lives of the ones those who are in such photos, not the ones who click the photo. I thought my para was self-explanatory. I have seen young boys and girls hauled before the committee's on the basis of their Facebook photos. I have seen elders incriminating the ones in the photo on purported theories that they deduced out of the photo.

    by my reasoning you have no position from which to judge the opinions or emotions of others.

    but then you write a 12 paragraph essay telling why my opinion was wrong.

    I will not silently tolerate people seeking to create that same vibe out here, where worldly people live.

    Then all the best with that. May Jehovah's blessing be on you.

  • Onager

    At least the guy on the floor is doing something constructive. Getting some shut-eye. The poor bastards by the carts are wasting their lives away in a trap that's harder to get out of than homelessness. If they did ignore him then they, unwittingly, did him the greatest favour they could.

  • Afterburn

    @ Giles Gray

    Your points have already been covered and debunked in my posts to flipper.


    @ Drearyweather

    but then you write a 12 paragraph essay telling why my opinion was wrong.

    You're being ridiculous. I criticized your condescending judgment of others and your having put false words in my mouth, and I also disagreed with your opinion ... I wasn't telling you why your opinion was wrong, I was telling you why I disagreed with it.

    Perhaps you confused the two? Maybe you felt personally attacked by normal civil discourse?

    As to photos being published (anywhere in public), if the photo is taken in a public place the persons in the picture have no expectation of privacy.

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