What Name Does the New Testament Emphasize - Jehovah or Jesus?

by Vanderhoven7 263 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • JW GoneBad
    JW GoneBad

    Wow...what a powerful song!

    Jesus is Jehovah to me!

    For all you who must insist on 'Jehovah'...this song is for you!

    Praise the Lord...Christ Jesus!

    Thank you Sea Breeze...these guys can sure carry a tune!

  • Vanderhoven7

    URL copied on this oldie. Thanks for sharing.

  • GodBeliever

    "And God said moreover unto Moses, "Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, Jehovah, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations."
    Exodus 3:15
    "Jehovah thy God will raise up unto thee a prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken; according to all that thou desiredst of Jehovah thy God in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying, Let me not hear again the voice of Jehovah my God, neither let me see this great fire any more, that I die not. And Jehovah said unto me, They have well said that which they have spoken. I will raise them up a prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee; and I will put my words in his mouth, and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him." Deuteronomy 18:15‭-‬19

    "The woman *said to Him, “Sir, I perceive that You are a prophet. Our fathers worshiped on this mountain, and yet you Jews say that in Jerusalem is the place where one must worship.” Jesus *said to her, “Believe Me, woman, that a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, because salvation is from the Jews. But a time is coming, and even now has arrived, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers. God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.” The woman *said to Him, “I know that Messiah is coming (He who is called Christ); when that One comes, He will declare all things to us.” Jesus *said to her, “I am He, the One speaking to you.”
    John 4:19‭-‬26

    "Jesus replied to him, “It is written: ‘You shall worship the Lord your God and serve Him only.’ ”
    Luke 4:8

    Some people accuse JWs of getting the wrong Jesus but they got the wrong God altogether. They worship a god they do not even understand, a god invented through misinterpreting the scriptures.

    The only true God is Jehovah, He made himself known to the Jewish nation in the beginning and He will always remain the same. Jesus came as Mediator and prophet to make known His Father's name and the new Kingdom that God promised in Eden. Jesus was put in charge with setting up this new kingdom of which He is the cornerstone and also being the King of it until the God's appointed time when He will hand it over back to Jehovah.

  • Disillusioned JW
    Disillusioned JW

    Thanks slimboyfat for quoting Gaston's words of "G. Howard points out that in none of the now considerable LXX texts from the first century is kyrios used for the tetragrammaton, which is written in Hebrew letters." That is something I did not know. Those words are a figurative "big eye opener" to me. That message is a huge revelation. I knew there were some LXX manuscripts which contained the tetragrammaton, but until now I didn't know that ALL of the LXX manuscripts from the first century CE lacked kyrios as a substitution for the tetragrammaton. WOW!

    Vanderhoven7, your references to P47 does not not refute slimboyfat's (and Gaston's) claim since that manuscript (which you say that according to JWfacts "dates prior to 300 A.D.") is dated to very probably AFTER the 2nd century CE (after the year 200 CE) and slimboyfat says the NT was revised in the 2nd century CE (and thus before the year 201 CE). Also since "P66 dates from around 200 A.D." it might also be after (by a few decades) the time period which slimboyfat claims the NT was revised.

    Paul's writings are from the mid 1st century CE and slimboyfat revealed that Gaston revealed that George Howard revealed that "that in none of the now considerable LXX texts from the first century is kyrios used for the tetragrammaton, which is written in Hebrew letters." Since Paul quoted from the scriptures in which the tetragrammaton was used in both the Hebrew Scriptures text and from the Greek Septuagint text (the latter being being revealed us as the case, as stated above), isn't that strong evidence that Paul included the tetragrammaton (YHWH) in his original NT letters which contained those quotes? The congregations he wrote to all had a copy of the OT scriptures (whether in Hebrew or in Greek) which included the tetragrammaton in the text! If they had noticed that Paul's letters to them had used the word kyrios in place of the tetragrammaton wouldn't they been alarmed?

    Regarding the quote which Vanderhoven7 provided of Justin Martyr (who was a Hellenized Samaritan before becoming a Christian), I get the impression that Justin Martyr was lying in implying that God the Father has no name. Surely he would have seen the name used in the Scriptures if he ever read them in the Hebrew or Samaritan texts, or even in the Greek Septuagint text (since we now know the Greek Septuagint manuscripts contained the name). He lived from AD 100 – c. AD 165, thus he must have have seen the name in the OT scriptures - unless the revision of the Septuagint (to exclude the name) had already taken place in the 2nd century CE before Justin Martyr began reading the scriptures as a Christian and even as a person of the Samaritan religion.

    Furthermore, Justin Martyr argument that everyone who has name received the name from someone older than them is false. Some people change their own name, thus making their current name one which gave to themselves. Furthermore, the OT teaches that (or at least makes the implication) that YHWH gave his name "YHWH" to himself.

  • Disillusioned JW
    Disillusioned JW

    Correction: The first two sentences of the last paragraph of my prior post should say the following. "Furthermore, Justin Martyr's argument that everyone who has a name received the name from someone older than them is false. Some people change their own name, thus making their current name one which they gave to themselves."

    Vanderhoven7, the translators of the NKJV seem to also suspect that the NT originally had the name YHWH in quotes of the OT which had the name. I think partly because in regards to the words "LORD" and "GOD", they say the following in the Preface of the NKJV (at least in an edition which is copyright 1988). "In the present edition the name is so capitalized whenever the covenant name is quoted in the New Testament from a passage in the Old Testament." I also think I read more than a year ago that they said there is evidence that the Name was originally in the NT, but maybe it was some editor of a study edition of the Bible who said that instead.

    Also keep in mind that prior to the 1940s no scholar in at least the past 1,000 years knew of any copies of the Septuagint OT which contained the Name, but in the 1940s some copies were found. Thus just because no known extant ancient copies of the NT contain the name, that doesn't prove there never very ancient copies of the NT which contained the Name. It also does NOT mean there never will be found ancient copies of the Greek NT (or Syriac/Aramaic NT) with the Name in them.

  • Vanderhoven7


    If the New Testament is reliable, the name of Jesus is emphasized more than the name Jehovah in the New Testament.

    If the New Testament is not reliable, and the name Jehovah was completely removed from all ancient manuscripts, God did not preserve His word.

    My take, is that God has preserved His word and the New Testament is reliable.

  • GodBeliever


    "And my holy name will I make known in the midst of my people Israel; neither will I suffer my holy name to be profaned any more: and the nations shall know that I am Jehovah, the Holy One in Israel. Behold, it cometh, and it shall be done, saith the Lord Jehovah; this is the day whereof I have spoken."Ezekiel 39:7‭-‬8

    "And those who have insight will shine like the glow of the expanse of heaven, and those who lead the many to righteousness, like the stars forever and ever. But as for you, Daniel, keep these words secret and seal up the book until the end of time; many will roam about, and knowledge will increase.” Daniel 12:3‭-‬4

    With all Satan's opposition and forgery attempts, Jehovah made his name known again in this day we live in, often mentioned in the bible "that day"

  • GodBeliever

    Satan was never able to understand God decisions regarding His purpose. He thought Jehovah was done with the old covenant and he didn't pay attention to Hebrew scriptures anymore. However Hebrew scriptures are all prophecies and they are as true today as have ever been. Even the Jews couldn't discern them because of their lack of faith.

    He killed Jesus and then bribed the roman guards to tell that his body was stolen by His followers. This is him like Jesus said "the father of lie". But he cannot ever stop Jehovah from bringing His plans to completion.

    "Moreover the word of Jehovah came unto me, saying, Jeremiah, what seest thou? And I said, I see a rod of an almond-tree. Then said Jehovah unto me, Thou hast well seen: for I watch over my word to perform it." Jeremiah 1:11‭-‬12

  • Vanderhoven7


    Do you believe Jesus made God's name known by incessantly repeating the correct syllables thereof? The Tetragrammaton was already known and appeared close to 7000 times in the Hebrew scriptures. Or did Jesus manifest God's name by revealing His character, His nature, His intentions, His love, .i.e., His true identity.... by His words and works of love and grace. Jesus manifested His person, not by repeating Yahovah, Yahweh or Yaho a hundred times a day so that people would be sure to pronounce the name correctly.

    What further evidence do you need to see that pronouncing the correct syllables of God's name is unimportant. The fact that you do not see the divine name on the lips of Jesus or His apostles once in the reliable New Testament should make that clear.

    Jesus revealed God's intent or desire for intimacy with us, not syllables. His desire is that His children know Him as Father, not Jehovah, Yahweh or Yaho..... or you would find the name of Yaho 7000 times in the New Testament as well.

    I like the following quotation that I recently picked up.

    "The name which Jesus manifested - that is to say, manifested as that not yet manifested before His advent - cannot be those names that were known already in the Old Testament - Yahve, Adonai, El etc. - but this name newly and uniquely manifested is the "Father".

    Jesus uniquely and unprecedentedly in history invested humans with authority to become God's children (John 1:12), and thus to have God as Father. More precisely, He is the unique and only Revelator of God whom nobody has seen (John 1:18), and whom nobody can either access without Him (John 14:16) or know without Him (Matthew 11:27); while He Himself knows the Father as He is known by the Latter (John 1:15), thus is equal to Him; in virtue of this equality, He is the only natural and co-eternal Son of the Father, the Latter's co-Creator of the universe. And this natural Son authorises also humans to participate in His and the Father's eternal the divine life, by making them His brothers and sisters by adoption (John 20:17).

    Thus, the new name of God, the "Father", denotes a new ontological condition of humanity with reference to its creator God, a new and unprecedented degree of intimacy of humanity with God, for by now, through authorization of the Son, humans also get access to divine life by becoming partakers of it to the fullest possible way; exactly this intimate partaking of divine life is called sonship, and exactly by virtue of this God is revealed as the "Father" of such "sons" and "daughters"

  • GodBeliever

    You see Vanderhoven, yourare interpreting the scriptures to support your belief by omitting the context. Yes, Jesus was created in God's image and everything was created through Him, and yes God brought back the human to Him through Jesus, but : "Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, who, as He already existed in the form of God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, but emptied Himself by taking the form of a bond-servant and being born in the likeness of men. And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death: death on a cross. For this reason also God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, so that at the name of Jesus every knee will bow, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father." Philippians 2:5‭-‬11

    To whom Jesus became obedient if He was equal to God?

    "You heard that I said to you, ‘I am going away, and I am coming to you.’ If you loved Me, you would have rejoiced because I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I." John 14:28

    "But to sit on My right or on My left is not Mine to give; but it is for those for whom it has been prepared.” Mark 10:40

    "For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that of everything that He has given Me I will lose nothing, but will raise it up on the last day. For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.”
    John 6:38‭-‬40

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