by slimboyfat 144 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
Well, there are two things that you guys are missing, the article says that just very few wicked people isn't gonna be resurrected, like Judas Iscariot and not surprising 'unrepentant apostates' , that leaves the door open for almost everybody.
I find interesting the picture in the article about a woman watching on TV the attack on religion.... clearly they are betting on really massive repentance.
Anyway, there are a lots of , as they say 'we don't know'.
Jesus H Fecking Christ can you read? The paragraph you refer to is:
10 Will all who die during the events of the great tribulation be destroyed forever with no hope of a resurrection? The Scriptures make it clear that outright opposers whom Jehovah and his forces will destroy at Armageddon will not be resurrected. (2 Thess. 1:6-10) But what about others, for example, who may die from natural causes, from accidents, or at the hand of other humans? (Eccl. 9:11; Zech. 14:13) Could some of these people be among the “unrighteous” who will be resurrected in the new world? We simply do not know.
Note the bold part!!! This is talking about people who die during the GT and the Big A but NOT at the hands of Jehovah via his judgement...if they die do they get a chance? The article says maybe and that they maybe part of the unrighteous who gets resurrected after the Big A.
Nowhere in the article does it ever say that wicked destroyed at Big A by Jehovah get a second chance. If they are destroyed by Jehovah they have been judged and executed at the Big A and no second chance.
The very few who die before the Big A who DO NOT get a resurrection are the opposers and very wicked you mention.
Where on earth are you getting your interpretation from because it is not this article?
Read the bloody article properly!
Your second point is from these two paragraphs:
12 Even after the great tribulation starts, it is possible that some who see the destruction of “Babylon the Great” will recall that Jehovah’s Witnesses had long spoken of this event. Might some who see these events have a change of heart?—Rev. 17:5; Ezek. 33:33.
13 Such an outcome would be similar to what occurred in Egypt in Moses’ day. Recall that “a vast mixed company” joined Israel in the Exodus. Some of these individuals may have started to develop faith when they saw that Moses’ warnings about the Ten Plagues came true. (Ex. 12:38) If a similar development should occur following the destruction of Babylon the Great, would we be disappointed that people were able to join us shortly before the end comes? Of course not! We want to reflect the personality of our heavenly Father, “a God merciful and compassionate, slow to anger and abundant in loyal love and truth.” b—Ex. 34:6.
This refers to, as bold part shows, those that have heard or associated with JW's like exJW's or family of JW's that know the message. They may now turn to Jehoover during the GT and potentially be saved.
This is NOT a billion people conversion. It's just softening the stance that once the GT starts that is it for exJW's of families of JWs.
MikeJW why are you ignoring all my points on Jehoover judging people which shows my posts are correct and highlights your interpretation is wrong.
The current belief with this adjustment is:
1) Jehovah will save all JWs
2) Some non JWs may turn to Jehovah during the GT and be saved
3) Some who die at the hands of natural forces or humans during the GT but before the executed judgement at the Big A may get a second chance
4) Dying before the Big A for non JW's is not necessarily the only chance they have as they may be judged favourably if they respond during the GT and before Armageddon
5) Jehovah will still judge all people at the Big A and now JW's and the few ex JWs who have been judged by Jehovah favourably get through
That's it.
MikeJW you are literally taking one sentence in isolation, ignoring all the context and saying that billions of wicked get through Armageddon which is just nonsense.
You are simply ignoring those executed by Jehovah at Armageddon do not ever get a second chance which are the billions at Armageddon.
In order for resurrected and current non JWs to be treated the same then non JWs would need to be in the new system and judged on their future works just the same as the unrighteous who will be resurrected.
If the new teaching is that people need to come into the truth to survive Armageddon then what has changed?
Slim, what on earth is wrong with you? Where on earth does it say "resurrected and current non JWs to be treated the same"????? Have you read the article in question?
The new teaching is NOT that people still need "come into the truth" to be saved at Armageddon. The new teaching is some who are not JW's MAY, just MAY, be saved depending on how Jehovah judges them and how they react during the Great Tribulation.
This applies to those who are acquainted with the message who had rejected it initially but during the Great Tribulation have a change of heart and those who have never heard it but are judged by Jehovah to be righteous (like those in the Amazon rainforests etc)
Why is this article so hard to understand when it has changed little?
The real change is that JW's used to say once the Great Tribulation starts that is the door closed for anyone else to be saved and now with this change they are saying it is possible some may have a change of heart during the Great Tribulation and still be saved...or that some may be saved because they never heard the message but would have reacted favourably so Jehovah may save them too...the WT are saying they can no longer be dogmatic on that.
If the GB member/the Watchtower is saying that people who wished relatives would die before Armageddon so they would get a chance to come into the truth in the new system no longer need to do so, then doesn’t that imply that the reason people don’t need to worry is because people like that will have as much chance of surviving Armageddon if they don’t die before than if they do die before. And if they have the same chance then that’s a pretty high chance because the expectation is that most dead people will be resurrected.
Or to put it another way, if unbelievers are not as likely to survive as those those who have died are likely to be resurrected, then people might as well go back to hoping their relatives die before Armageddon again, because they still have a better chance of making it to the new system that way. But that’s precisely what the GB member says it’s no longer necessary to think.
If you know that WT is spewing nonsense while simultaneously creating a sense of urgency among its followers, why give it ANY of your precious time and mental resources.
Sure, it's nice to know what my JW relatives are being spoon-fed in the Publications™, but should it have any effect on my life? I don't think so.
It's just another shovelful of crap on an already heaping, steaming, smelly pile of crap.
the article says that just very few wicked people isn't gonna be resurrected, like Judas Iscariot and not surprising 'unrepentant apostates' , that leaves the door open for almost everybody.
Only the incorrigibly bad won’t get a shot at the 1000 year reign. If you die beforehand or are alive at Armageddon you have the same chance.
it is really simple and very clear new light, I think some xJWs want to cling on to the old light that many will be slaughtered at Armageddon. Maybe this was one of the best topics for waking up JWs which is why the new light was made up?
Now billions may survive Armageddon we just don’t know. But xJWs can’t use the old light anymore
Or to put it another way, if unbelievers are not as likely to survive as those those who have died are likely to be resurrected, then people might as well go back to hoping their relatives die before Armageddon again, because they still have a better chance of making it to the new system that way. But that’s precisely what the GB member says it’s no longer necessary to think.
Hit the nail on the head there Slim.
Notsure does not want to understand the new light for reason stated in my last post.
Notsure and Lloyd Evens cling on to the old light for multiple reasons and think this new light is a nothing burger.
The old light is that unbelieving loved ones would be better off dying before Armageddon than being alive during it. But the new light clearly says they have the same chance regardless.
Only really bad people will not get a resurrection or will be killed at Armageddon. If they died beforehand or not makes no difference this is the new light that these ones don’t like.
MikeJW You're not providing enough evidence to show that this is their new teaching. The one statement you mention doesn't substantiate it at all.
In the Watchtower, which include part of what you quote it states
But a person’s eternal future does not depend on when he happens to die. Jehovah is the perfect Judge—he renders just and righteous decisions. (Read Psalm 33:4, 5.) We can be confident that “the Judge of all the earth” will do what is right.
These comments are loaded and they won't explain any further on it because they just don't know or have chosen not to say.
However, it appears that what the Watchtower is saying is they don't know what will take place (and God will be fair and just) but they do know that if a person was going to have eternal life after they were resurrected then that person would not be killed at Armageddon had they still been alive at the start.
This is the new light. It is that Billions will survive Armageddon and only the really, really bad ones will be killed or not get a resurrection. If they died beforehand or not makes zero difference.
All those who died through history will get a chance at the 1000 year reign unless they were really really bad.
All those alive at Armageddon will get a chance at the 1000 year reign unless they were really really bad.
Its so simple. Watch the AGM again, read those study watchtowers again. Who will be classed as really really bad, we can’t be dogmatic we just don’t know.
