by slimboyfat 144 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
So someone with unbelieving loved ones, they are good people but for whatever reason don’t ever want to become JWs. THEY DO NOT RESPOND during the Great Tribulation,.
You still think if they died before Armageddon they would have a chance at the 1000 yr reign but they would be slaughtered by Jeh all because the time they died was inconvenient? That is old light. That is exactly what Br Jackson said “we know that is what some of you were hoping that your loved ones would die beforehand
I think what is clear is that Watchtower is contradicting itself.
Your points are very good that watchtower is absolutely saying that on one side of the coin.
But my points are also clear that the new light clearly says it makes no difference the time someone dies to if they get a shot at the 1000yr reign.
Instead of us disagreeing on different ways to look at it let’s agree that the new light is contradicting itself and they don’t know what they are talking about.
They can’t have it both ways. Either there is no difference when you die or you do have a better chance at the 1000 yr reign if you died beforehand
So someone with unbelieving loved ones, they are good people but for whatever reason don’t ever want to become JWs. THEY DO NOT RESPOND during the Great Tribulation,.
They are judged and executed at Armageddon as per the article and like they have always taught.
You still think if they died before Armageddon they would have a chance at the 1000 yr reign but they would be slaughtered by Jeh all because the time they died was inconvenient?
I don't know where you are getting this from as it is not what I say.
If the unbeliever died before Armageddon they come back in the paradise. Old light was they are dead at Armageddon if they were still alive when it starts new light is they have a chance to pass through Armageddon if they respond favorably to the events of the Great Tribulation.
The new light is simply NOT JUST JW's may survive Armageddon as that is old light, now JW's AND some who respond to the Great Tribulation may pass through.
Nothing more than that. I'm not saying anything more than that as that is simply what the article says.
But my points are also clear that the new light clearly says it makes no difference the time someone dies to if they get a shot at the 1000yr reign.
This is correct if they die normally, but if they die at being judged and executed by Jehovah they are dead forever. Being executed at Armageddon means no second chance, that has not changed ever.
The no difference to when someone dies is there chance to get into paradise. Old light was a non believer HAD to die before Armageddon to get into paradise. Now there is two chances! Die before Armageddon OR respond favorably to the Great Tribulation.
Hence why WHEN they die is not the only route into paradise for those who have heard the message and chose not to be a JW when the Great Tribulation starts. Old light was JW's just hoped their family members who were not JWs died so they would get a resurrection...now they don't need to hope they die before Armageddon but simply respond to the events of the Great Tribulation.
Do you agree that this is contradictory? On the one hand it sounds like it is better for unbelievers to die before Armageddon than to be alive during.
Even though on the other hand they say when a person dies makes no difference.
This is a contradiction
Do you agree that this is contradictory? On the one hand it sounds like it is better for unbelievers to die before Armageddon than to be alive during.
Well that is true though to some degree. If an unbeliever dies before Armageddon they have a 100% chance of coming back unless an opposer or really bad like Hitler which is unlikely they are that bad.
But if Armageddon comes and they are still alive but a non JW they have to rely on reacting to the events of the Great Tribulation, turn to Jehovah and follow him and hope he judges them worthy. Which of the two routes to paradise is easier? Probably dying before Armageddon starts.
Thus it will be easier if they died but now the new light is that is not the only chance for them to pass through.
Hence WHEN they die is not the only route for these ones to survive Armageddon.
The article states:
But a person’s eternal future does not depend on when he happens to die. Jehovah is the perfect Judge—he renders just and righteous decisions.
All it is saying is your unbelieving family member doesn't need to die BEFORE Armageddon to still have a chance to get through. It doesn't matter WHEN they die in context of Armageddon because Jehovah will judge them perfectly depending on how they react to the Great Tribulation.
If they respond during the Great Tribulation then they may pass through and thus do not need to die before Armageddon to have that chance to be in the paradise.
Old light was for non JW's there was one route to paradise....die before Armageddon...now there are two routes to paradise for unbelievers...die before Armageddon OR respond during the Great Tribulation and be judged worthy.
Thus the conclusion is these types of people their eternal future doesn't reside on having to die before Armageddon.
We all know good people who just want to live a good life but don’t want anything to do with JWs.
They would be better off dying beforehand? They are so set in their ways they are not going to change or ‘respond favourably’ upto and during Armageddon? Going by this they would be better off dying beforehand.
But the contradiction is they told us we don’t have to wish these ones would die beforehand but the same time they indicated it would be better for them to die before?
Either Jehovah is fair and just or he will slaughter many many good people who for whatever reason did not respond favourably as they put it.
Instead of us disagreeing and trying to argue our points we should agree that the GB are making it up as they along and we have caught them out in an obvious contradiction.
Notsure you are 100% correct in what you say, and that is really that it is better for unbelievers to die beforehand. And thus I am correct to say this is a contradiction to telling JWs not to wish their unbelieving loved ones die beforehand because they have the same chance no matter when they die.
But the contradiction is they told us we don’t have to wish these ones would die beforehand but the same time they indicated it would be better for them to die before?
Yes because they can react to the Great Tribulation and still pass through, just no need to have to hope family die before Armageddon.
14 At times, we hear someone say, “It would almost be better if my relative dies before the great tribulation begins so that there is hope for his resurrection.” There are surely kind motives behind such expressions. But a person’s eternal future does not depend on when he happens to die.
Its all about those who are familiar with the message. That's your context here.
And thus I am correct to say this is a contradiction to telling JWs not to wish their unbelieving loved ones die beforehand because they have the same chance no matter when they die.
Not quite as they still have to respond favourably during the Great Tribulation to have that chance. And that seems a harder thing to do that die before Armageddon?
we should agree that the GB are making it up as they along and we have caught them out in an obvious contradiction.
Indeed and that is why I left 12 years but the stuff they have been producing recently, like this change, is just batshit crazy for sure.
the stuff they have been producing recently, like this change, is just batshit crazy for sure.
I’m so pleased to hear you say this as the reason I was so aggressive is because I thought you were defending the new light.
