by slimboyfat 144 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
Listener...MikeJW is a troll. He has ignored all the explanation and facts I've provided from the actual article and still just spews utter nonsense on the change. He has not once refuted any of my points.
Billions surviving Armageddon is simply incorrect, that is not the change.
I have refuted all your points notsure
The simplest refute is that you keep believing the old light that it would be better if your unrighteous loved ones died before Armageddon.
We agree that pretty much everyone who ever died throughout history will get a chance at the 10000 yr reign unless they were really really bad?
But you still think they have less of a chance at the 1000 year reign if they are alive at Armageddon? This is old light.
We can’t disagree on who will be classed as really really bad because the new light is we don’t know. But they hint at ones in the past who we thought would not get a resurrection now maybe they will. We just don’t know that.
But what they say is clear is that there is no difference between dying before or being alive at Armageddon
You haven't refuted any. I posted links to the articles showing Jehovah still judges and you ignored, I posted the context of the one quote you provided and you ignored.
You take one sentence and twist it to mean something else.
Billions will still die at Armageddon according to this change.
The simplest refute is that you keep believing the old light that it would be better if your unrighteous loved ones died before Armageddon.
Not once have I said ever. I've merely explained Jehovah will still judge and execute most but the WT are simply saying that some non JW's may respond during the Great Tribulation and be saved through Armageddon and thus JW's do not need now to hope their unbelieving family die before Armageddon as if they respond during the Great Tribulation they have that chance too.
That is all I've ever said because that is what the article says.
We agree that pretty much everyone who ever died throughout history will get a chance at the 10000 yr reign unless they were really really bad?
This is true and has not changed at all, it has not changed in the article, it has always been the case everyone who dies unless really bad or an opposer comes back.
The change is some people other than JW's may survive Armageddon based on Jehovah judging them as they respond to the events of the Great Tribulation.
This is NOT billions of people.
The simple change is:
OLD LIGHT: You MUST be a JW to survive Armageddon
NEW LIGHT: Some non JW's may survive Armageddon (those who react favourably during the Great Tribulation or those that would respond to the preaching but never had a chance to hear it)
THAT IS THE CHANGE AND NOTHING ELSE
The impact to a JW who has non believing family is you do NOT need to hope your unbelieving family die prior to Armageddon, they can react favourably during the Great Tribulation and still pass through Armageddon hence it doesn't matter WHEN your unbelieving family member dies now, they have a chance to pass through IF judged by Jehovah AFTER they respond to the events of the Great Tribulation.
You IGNORE all these points.
So you agree that everyone who died will be resurrected unless really really bad?
Simple question IF SOME OF THOSE WERE STILL ALIVE DO YOU THINK THEY HAVE LESS CHANCE?
Notsure you keep believing the old light that it would be better if your unrighteous loved ones died before Armageddon? The new light is it makes no difference the exact words are that when someone dies or doesn’t die makes no difference.
Jesus H Christ go back and listen to what Brother Jackson announced as new light.
Those who died before Armageddon are resurrected.
If they didn't die and Armageddon came IF THESE ONES RESPONDED FAVOURABLE to the events of the Great Tribulation and "helped Christ Brothers" they have a chance to be saved through Armageddon even though not a JW.
Finally you get it. That is the change right there! Thus for these people in your example it doesn't matter WHEN they die ie before Armageddon because they have a chance to pass through Armageddon IF THEY RESPOND during the Great Tribulation,.
Notsure you keep believing the old light that it would be better if your unrighteous loved ones died before Armageddon?
NOWHERE EVER DO I SAY THIS!
I’m confused as to what you believe they are saying but I’m not confused to what they are saying the new light is.
I don’t see why you would be confused though, only the really really bad people won’t get resurrected or will be killed at Armageddon. Do you agree there is no difference if they died before or are alive during?
I’m confused as to what you believe they are saying but I’m not confused to what they are saying the new light is.
You are confused at what I say BECAUSE you are confused at the article and new light.
Can any other posters help MikeJW here? As he clearly doesn't grasp the article or my explanation of it.
Just simply read the article.
9 In his Word, Jehovah has revealed to us some of the things he will do. For example, the Bible tells us that Jehovah will bring back to life “unrighteous” people who have not had the opportunity to respond to the good news and change their ways. (Acts 24:15; Luke 23:42, 43) That raises other important questions.
10. What other questions arise?
10 Will all who die during the events of the great tribulation be destroyed forever with no hope of a resurrection? The Scriptures make it clear that outright opposers whom Jehovah and his forces will destroy at Armageddon will not be resurrected. (2 Thess. 1:6-10) But what about others, for example, who may die from natural causes, from accidents, or at the hand of other humans? (Eccl. 9:11; Zech. 14:13) Could some of these people be among the “unrighteous” who will be resurrected in the new world? We simply do not know.
WHAT WE DO KNOW
11. On what basis will people be judged at Armageddon?
11 We do know several things about future events. For example, we know that at Armageddon, people will be dealt with on the basis of how they have treated Christ’s brothers. (Matt. 25:40) Those judged as sheep will have shown their support for the anointed and for Christ. We also know that some of Christ’s brothers will still be on earth after the great tribulation starts and will not be taken to heaven until shortly before the outbreak of Armageddon. As long as the brothers of Christ are still on earth, it is possible that honesthearted individuals will have the opportunity to support them and the work they are doing. (Matt. 25:31, 32; Rev. 12:17) Why are those facts significant?
12-13. How might some react after seeing the destruction of “Babylon the Great”? (See also pictures.)
12 Even after the great tribulation starts, it is possible that some who see the destruction of “Babylon the Great” will recall that Jehovah’s Witnesses had long spoken of this event. Might some who see these events have a change of heart?—Rev. 17:5; Ezek. 33:33.
13 Such an outcome would be similar to what occurred in Egypt in Moses’ day. Recall that “a vast mixed company” joined Israel in the Exodus. Some of these individuals may have started to develop faith when they saw that Moses’ warnings about the Ten Plagues came true. (Ex. 12:38) If a similar development should occur following the destruction of Babylon the Great, would we be disappointed that people were able to join us shortly before the end comes? Of course not! We want to reflect the personality of our heavenly Father, “a God merciful and compassionate, slow to anger and abundant in loyal love and truth.” b—Ex. 34:6.
Collage: 1. A young woman watches a TV news report about the shutdown of religious activities. She holds a photo and reflects on her life when she served Jehovah with her parents. 2. Later, she visits her parents’ home, and they receive her warmly. Outside the house, there is a disturbance on the street.
Some who will see the destruction of “Babylon the Great” will recall that Jehovah’s Witnesses had long spoken of this event (See paragraphs 12-13) d
14-15. Does a person’s eternal future depend on when he happens to die or where he happens to live? Explain. (Psalm 33:4, 5)
14 At times, we hear someone say, “It would almost be better if my relative dies before the great tribulation begins so that there is hope for his resurrection.” There are surely kind motives behind such expressions. But a person’s eternal future does not depend on when he happens to die. Jehovah is the perfect Judge—he renders just and righteous decisions. (Read Psalm 33:4, 5.) We can be confident that “the Judge of all the earth” will do what is right.—Gen. 18:25.
15 It is also reasonable to conclude that a person’s eternal future does not depend on where he happens to live. It is unthinkable that Jehovah would automatically label as “goats” millions of people who live in lands where they never had an opportunity to respond to the Kingdom message. (Matt. 25:46) The righteous Judge of all the earth cares even more about these individuals than we ever could. We do not know how Jehovah will maneuver events during the great tribulation. Perhaps some of these people will have an opportunity to learn about Jehovah, put faith in him, and take their stand on Jehovah’s side when he sanctifies himself before all nations.—Ezek. 38:16.
After the great tribulation starts, . . . might some who see these events have a change of heart?
16. What have we come to know about Jehovah? (See also picture.)
16 Through our study of the Bible, we have come to know just how much Jehovah values human life. He gave his Son’s life so that all of us may have the prospect of living forever. (John 3:16) We have all felt Jehovah’s tender affection. (Isa. 49:15) He knows each of us by name. In fact, he knows us so well as individuals that should we die, he can re-create every unique detail and restore every memory that makes us who we are! (Matt. 10:29-31) Surely, we have good reason to be confident that our loving heavenly Father will judge each individual in a perfectly balanced, righteous, and merciful way.—Jas. 2:13.
MikeJW your whole point falls down with this one paragraph:
11. On what basis will people be judged at Armageddon?
11 We do know several things about future events. For example, we know that at Armageddon, people will be dealt with on the basis of how they have treated Christ’s brothers. (Matt. 25:40) Those judged as sheep will have shown their support for the anointed and for Christ. We also know that some of Christ’s brothers will still be on earth after the great tribulation starts and will not be taken to heaven until shortly before the outbreak of Armageddon. As long as the brothers of Christ are still on earth, it is possible that honesthearted individuals will have the opportunity to support them and the work they are doing. (Matt. 25:31, 32; Rev. 12:17) Why are those facts significant?
Look at the question and the answer. Jehovah will judge and execute those at Armageddon if they have not responded to the preaching. Billions dead.
The next paragraph shows the change:
12 Even after the great tribulation starts, it is possible that some who see the destruction of “Babylon the Great” will recall that Jehovah’s Witnesses had long spoken of this event.
THUS people, not JW's could survive by reacting to the Great Tribulation...and be saved.
The article is nothing more than that.
