would you be more happy not knowing what you now know?

by ExBethelitenowPIMA 196 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • TonusOH

    That was ExB quoting me, cofty. I got the impression about Conway Morris from the Wikipedia entry for him:

    He has lectured at the Faraday Institute for Science and Religion on "Evolution and fine-tuning in Biology". He gave the University of Edinburgh Gifford Lectures for 2007 in a series titled "Darwin's Compass: How Evolution Discovers the Song of Creation". In these lectures Conway Morris makes several claims that evolution is compatible with belief in the existence of a God.
  • cofty

    Yes TonusOH I think SCM is a good example from this side of the pond who refuses to compromise on the science but maintains a belief.

    The problem for JWs and fundie xtians is that it makes a particular type of god impossible. There can be no Adam, no fall from perfection, no ransom in the sense that JWs understand it.

    I think it also radically affects your understanding of humanity when you know we shared a common ancestor with every living thing and got here after billions of years of carnage - including the almost total annihilation of all life on 5 or 6 occasions. It is far more interesting than the wilful ignorance (or 'informed ignorance' whatever that means) that Ex-B is arguing for.

    My disbelief is not a result of evolution. that makes god unnecessary but not impossible.

  • slimboyfat
  • Lee Marsh
    Lee Marsh

    I have had enough of the god vs whatever debate. That was not the topic here. You have destroyed an interesting topic and made it your own.

    And after 19 pages have either one of you gotten the other person to accept even a fraction of what you have said?

    What exactly was the point? because as far as I can see all you have done is alienate everyone that really wanted to discuss the actual topic.

  • cofty

    Lee Marsh - The person who started the thread took it in this direction here...

    That was on page two. His choice, not mine. His point is that blissful ignorance is better than knowing the truth about precious beliefs. He chose evolution as an example. I argued that it is better to face up to the reality of all that is knowable and live your life based on reality, even it is not what you wish was true.

    If you go back to the early pages of this thread you will see how closely we tried to stay on topic and how the thread author guided it in the direction he chose.

  • ExBethelitenowPIMA

    “regardless of whether it happened by chance or by design. The question of what 'guided' it can remain open,”

    Yes that’s exactly what I feel. If you feel like this then you are be true definition agnostic.

    Many modern scientists remain open if intelligence or blind chance was involved

  • ExBethelitenowPIMA

    I never made the statement that - “it is definitely better to be wilfully ignorant” Cofty you are once again twisting things.

    Im certainly asking that question and wondering perhaps people are happier PIMI than PIMO.

    But I’m also asking the question if there is a third option to be agnostic and keep a little bit of hope that the Bible maybe be right at least partially.

    As as said before Cofty took this off topic, most PIMI’s have to admit they only have a hope of the Bibles promises. Well I have that hope as well even though my view is it may be right or it may be wrong.

    This is where I’m at right now but what I’ve learnt is never feel you can’t change your belief if there is a good reason to.

    I feel it’s dangerous to be so set in your belief system and hold on to it ignoring anything that doesn’t feed your confirmation bias

  • ExBethelitenowPIMA

    So back on topic I’m wondering could you actually have all the advantages of PIMI by talking about the hope of the Bibles promises coming true, and have the advantages of PIMO by not wasting your life too much by sitting on the fence and being PIMA like me?

  • ExBethelitenowPIMA

    Getting back to the TV show Silo that we talked about earlier I have just seen upto episode 10.

    Long story short what they came to realise was not true because they had another belief system presented- also turned out also not to be the truth.

    They were told they would die outside but they were presented a belief system where it was actually green and lush, they believed this but actually there is a lot more to it.

    This is a bit like someone believes what we have been told about the Bible then are presented with Darwin’s first theory that it was a Big Bang purely by chance and there is no intelligence involved at all.

    But maybe there is a lot more to it than that. Just like Silo some who used to believe the Bibles promises went totally over to blind chance Big Bang no intelligence involved at all.

    what if there was intelligence involved and what if the Bible does have a lot of meaning for us but we just don’t understand it properly?

    But I’m open to the possibilities that people in Cofty’s camp maybe right that there was no intelligence involved and it’s all just blind chance. Even if this is the case I think to live your life with a little bit of hope in the Bibles promises can be helpful especially when someone is going through a very very hard time to tell them what the Bible promises.

    This is not disingenuous to just tell them this is what the Bible promises and they may find comfort in this hope. I can still find comfort in the hope even though my view is it may be right or it maybe wrong.

    I think that a lot more of the 8 million JWs are like me, than most think. They go along with things because they like the congregation but at the end of the day they think to themselves it may be true or it may not be.

  • cofty
    before Cofty took this off topic,

    You just told a blatant lie to cover your own stubbornness.

    we are done.

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