would you be more happy not knowing what you now know? (page 18)

cofty

Are you saying that SCM believes that common descent can't be explained without resorting to non-natural explanations?

cofty

Here is an extract from a recent interview with SCM that address his views on evidence for intelligence having a hand in biological evolution.

I am typing on my phone so will leave a reference later.

Interviewer- I take it that in the case of evolution, there's sort of two ways to go for a theist. There's the idea that God just set everything up and made the rules, but then nature obeys those rules. But there's also a way that you could imagine God guiding the course of evolution. Do you have strong feelings about that dichotomy?

1:05:18.1 SCM: Oh, I have a strong feeling against the second option, very much so, 'cause that's something which as you say goes dangerously close to intelligent design or creationism

So SCM is 100% a traditional evolutionary scientist who happens to be a Christian - exactly as I have been saying repeatedly.

He does believe in an ultimate teleology but that is a philosophical question not a scientific one.

slimboyfat

You asked

name these biologists who think intelligence might have been involved in evolution.

Simon Conway Morris believes God set up reality precisely so that evolution necessarily ends up producing conscious beings such as humans. If that doesn’t meet your idea of “intelligence being involved in evolution” that’s your choice.

TonusOH

Yes, that's correct. Conway Morris believes (and has made his case in lectures -and a book?) that a study of evolution can lead one to the conclusion that there is an intelligence behind it. And there are many other scientists -including evolutionary biologists- who believe that god exists, and that evolution explains the diversity of life on the planet.

If ExB accepts this much, I think it's a step forward.

ExBethelitenowPIMA

“Yes, that's correct. Conway Morris believes (and has made his case in lectures -and a book?) that a study of evolution can lead one to the conclusion that there is an intelligence behind it. And there are many other scientists -including evolutionary biologists- who believe that god exists, and that evolution explains the diversity of life on the planet.”

He is not the only one, many of the new breed think intelligence was involved not just blind chance

yes we are making progress 👏😁

TonusOH

But you're good with evolution as the explanation for the diversity of life on the planet?

ExBethelitenowPIMA

Tonus I’m agnostic so I won’t commit. Unless absolute proof of chance or intelligence is presented

I just have a problem with someone trying to say you can’t ask those questions or that is a philosophical question not a scientific one.

You can call it anything you want, it won’t stop me asking those questions or seeking the answers.

By the way, the question of if intelligence was involved doesn’t necessarily mean God, that’s an assumption. Many of the new generation of scientists have views that intelligence must have been involved it could not all have just been blind chance.

The fact that these discoveries can’t be replicated in a controlled environment does suggest it’s unlikely to have been blind chance, but an intelligence far beyond what we could imagine

TonusOH

That isn't what I am referring to. I am asking if you accept evolution as the explanation for the diversity of life, regardless of whether it happened by chance or by design. The question of what 'guided' it can remain open, but even the biologists who think it was design do not doubt that life evolved.

cofty

ExB - SCM disagrees passionately with your assertion that complexity points to a designer.

SBF is up to his usual bs tricks where words have no meaning.

cofty

Conway Morris believes (and has made his case in lectures -and a book?) that a study of evolution can lead one to the conclusion that there is an intelligence behind it

No he absolutely does not.

He is 100% committed to the scientific position that every single example of complexity in evolution can be completely explained without reference to an intelligent designer.

I have told you a dozen times that most Christians accept evolution without abandoning belief in God.

The earth is not flat: all living things evolved by evolution from a common ancestor over millions of years.

These two statements are equally certain. There is zero scientific debate about either of them.

That does not affect whether or not god exists.

I'm only trying to encourage you to not adopt wilful ignorance that you argued for in your OP. Thoroughly study everything that can be known and base your beliefs on reality.

would you be more happy not knowing what you now know?

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