Anti-American? Do people only want their own opinions allowed? (page 2)

Realist

onacruse,

do you mean that all soldiers world wide (regardless of whether they faught for nazi germany, north vietnam, iraq or the US) deserve respect? or just the US soldiers?

Trauma_Hound

Simon what other forum? I don't see any posts by Dakota on JWO. Unless he deleted them.

dubla

englishman-

If you disapprove of the war then you must disapprove of the US and the UK equally.

i agree with you 100%, but i do not think all see it that way. the opinion ive witnessed (even on this thread) from some in the anti crowd is along the lines of "yeah, britain and the u.s. are both at war, but at least britain has a better attitude about it"......even going as far as critisizing the names given to u.s. missions, and praising the fact that the british missions have less-offensive names, etc. seems like theres always a competition raging about something or another, but im with you.....the u.k. and u.s. are in this together, plain and simple.......neither one "better" or "worse" than the other when it comes to war matters.

aa

ThiChi

onacruse

Realist, good question.

I'd say soldiers, everywhere, every war, deserve to be respected for their willingness to sacrifice their lives for their country. It's not a matter of right or wrong; it's a matter of demonstrating conviction to principles that, as far as one may be aware at the time, are worth fighting, and dying, for. That's why I don't feel any regret about my 4 decades as a JW...I did what I honestly thought was right, based on my best information and conscience. The typical (though not all) Nazi, Communist or Iraqi soldiers were/are similarly uninformed. I don't blame them any more than I blame myself.

It's about personal integrity. Politics, on the other hand, usually shows a lack of integrity, and leaves a lot of innocent victims (and participants) in its wake.

Craig

Realist

onacruse,

thanks for clearing this up!

i agree that intergrity is something that should be honored even if the conviction is awful.

i just wanted to correct a little error in your post...you meant of course:

The typical (though not all) Nazi, Communist, Iraqi or US soldiers were/are similarly uninformed.

dedalus

It's about personal integrity.

I see what you're saying, I think, but it's still possible to have integrity (a sort of honesty about and devotion for the principles one believes in, as I understand it) for the wrong things. Is that a glitch in the idea that soldiers are beyond reprehension, whether the governments that send them out are right or wrong? I admit I'm not sure.

What I find uncomfortable is the pervasive American rhetoric that tells me to "support our troops." How am I supposed to do this? Think warm fuzzy thoughts? All too often, though, I find that "support our troops" really means "don't criticize the war." Don't think about the administrations conflicting statements and public relations shenanigans -- shut up and support the troops. Focus your energy like a giant ray of light over the Atlantic and concentrate ...

I also fail to see how the troops are fighting for "American freedom." This war is an invasion. There were wars when American soldiers fought for and defended the country. I don't see the current conflict as one of them.

Sorry, but more and more, I just can't help seeing things the way I do -- people with swooning hearts waving flags and banners, carrying signs cheering on the troops -- that, to me, isn't patriotism. It's effusive mawkishness with little introspective substance to it. And for what it's worth, I think there's a lot of this in anti-war demonstrations, too. What am I looking for? I don't know. A better national conversation, or something like that, I guess. A country I can be proud of.

Dedalus

dubla

What I find uncomfortable is the pervasive American rhetoric that tells me to "support our troops." How am I supposed to do this?

you can donate items to the red cross to be sent overseas for starters. i understand beef jerky is a hot commodity, which is one of the items we sent over.

aa

ThiChi

Realist:

""i think it is sad that you still believe in the lies you were told back then and that you support the current madness emanating from the US. ""

LOL! You remind me of the Iraqi Information Minister! Total denial.... Your statements are just generalized nonsense, unreal and untruthful.

The following commentary fits people like you to a tee:

In the name of this brand of "peace," Europe wrote off the Jews and Czechoslovakians to Hitler's tender mercies in the 1930s. Now as the Iraqi people suffer, in the name of "peace" the Jim McDermotts of the world say, "The Iraqis be damned." This is how desperate they are to smear George W. Bush and regain power: they'll even use a dictator's slaughtering of his own people to do it! Saddam blamed that market slaughter on us to score political points, and he's setting up civilians to die by the truckload - including putting guns to the heads of those women he made rush that American check point - just so he can blame it on us. Jim McDermott picked these lies up and used them too! Saddam wouldn't care about us killing his civilians anyway. We targeted Japanese citizens with nukes, and they surrendered because they didn't want their people slaughtered. But they weren't slaughtering their own people like Saddam. Saddam kills thousands of his citizens every day, and has killed more Muslims than anyone in history! If we took out all the civilians in Iraq, Saddam would say, "Great! Now I can have all the oil to myself and stop starving my people to death or gassing them piecemeal." One of the reasons we're moving in there is to stop this. It's obscene to watch these people make a political calculation to ignore atrocities, just so they can pick up a few extra seats in Congress. Human rights violations are one of the things the left in this country used to care about, but somehow when it comes to Saddam, the left gives him a license to commit genocide. (They did the same thing with Stalin, of course, which is why he helped the peace movement grow.) They acknowledge Saddam's brutal history, yet protect his right to drop human beings into plastic shedders, fill their colons with boiling water, etc., with the phase "sovereign state." These people have become irrelevant - and they know it.

Anti-American? Do people only want their own opinions allowed?

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