Anti-American? Do people only want their own opinions allowed?

by Simon 135 Replies latest members adult

  • Jayson
    Jayson

    Simon says:

    I do think though that while Britain is involved, there is not the same enthusiasm or blind patriotism on display on this side of the Atlantic.<---Have you read any scholarly books on the Iraqi Middle East issue? I recommend "The Threatening Storm" by Kennith Pollak. It is the most balance book I have read and covers all the players in this current world problem. Personally I think that the so called "worldviews" that is opposed to the USA have a pathological stink to it. There is not any real reason behind it. Bush is bad and that is it.

    Satan Says:

    I have noticed a big change in the attitude of Americans towards 'freedom of speech. They used to say, 'i may disagree w you, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it. They don't say this anymore.

    If I were in charge I would bring back an updated version of the "Sedition Act." That would clear up the difference between lawful peaceful protest and sedition.

    Matt says:

    Simon has done a bloody good job of developing this forum, it is so clear to see the work that he has put into it, he has clearly stated along the way that this is a forum for us all to express our views, we are all different people from all different backgrounds and lives with one thing in common, we have all be strong enough to move on from that.

    Yes, it always has been.

    But Simon is all the speech here "free." Or are there rules? Are there punishment for not following YOUR rules? Does Simon only want opinions that are acceptable to him and his henchmen? I don't think that is a fair question FYI but, I see a parity to his origional question.
    Random Task says

    Do you take it as an insult when I state that you are biased?
    If you asked me to be nonbias I would tell you that is not possible. I can try to be fair and open to the fact that I might be wrong or be able to improve my prejudices. I would do this because it is more important for me to find out if I am right as opposed to making sure that I am always right.

    Francios says:

    I think the sad state of affairs in the UK is directly a result of the influence of lilberals of all stripes weilding too much power.

    Yes, And somehow believing that treating everyone as the same is somehow logical; believing that somehow everyone is good because they see themselves as a good person is delusional.

    We of the conservative bent across the pond are fighting tooth and nail to keep what happened to the British from happening to us.

    Yep.

    Simon says:

    Believe it or not, but politically I am Conservative. <--- No I do not believe you. I guess I'm a right-wing communist liberal conscientious abstainer <---- And that is why. Can you define what these terms: right wing, left wing, liberal, conservative, communist, socialist, and conscientious abstainer actually mean from scholarly definitions? Or, is this just political mental masturbation for you? I don't mean to disrespect you. Citizens are no longer taught that these ideologies of politics. They are not unsimilar to ideologies of religion. Your comments mean that basically you stand for nothing because you see it as a pot luck.

    Xena says:

    With Dakota I believe his outburst was situational and it was out of sheer frustration and anger.

    Mine[outburst] was too. It was my hope that the personal slander would stop if enough people did the same. I came back because I saw the new posting rules and I had hoped that things were better. Now I am not so sure. It seems that often socialism now called neo-marxism or the 3rd way is a nice slide from a cult. Of course those ideologies are just another cult to feel warm with, to hate with, and to not deal with one's own problem with. Hate is such an addictive mindset. And anyone who speaks out against the cult mindset must be silenced. It is not DR's issue that I am speaking of I am being general. I however have such deep respect for DR as I watched him deal with so many personal attacks with integrity.

    TH says:

    It's ok Simon I'm always being accused of being a liberal<---Are you?"Don't like abortion? Then don't get one". <---If you have one, or perform one should you be allowed to profit from selling the baby parts? It is just not an abortion. It is also a harvest of the corpes for bio matter. Are you OK with that too?

    Yerusalyim <---Just to say I always respected your thoughts.

    TH says to Yerusalyim:

    Haha, I can't help laughing at this, considering that Spousal Abuse is highest among people in the military.Yep that's why ya get paid the big bucks, because of your intelligence.<--- I have never read that stat. Where did you get it? Not that it matters. This is just a mean, hateful thing to say TH. It shows the lack of character you have. And, I have a friend who just joined the Army as an officer. His starting salary will be in the 35-40k a year. That's not bad IMO. And I will write a check for nearly $30,000.00 to Aunt Sam on the 15th of this month. And then another $2500.00 for property taxes on the 30th. How much did you pay TH? Do you make the big bucks that are so big you feel that you have the right to slam all the soldiers of the US for the great service that they do and, though innuendo say that they are abusers? Or is it just a bigoted point of view that you harbor? (Just wondering)

    Simon says:

    Well, I would guess that from their point of view they may think:
    The Americans sold us the chemical weapons in the first place. They must have them themselves (and they do, having not destroyed their own stockpiles)
    The Americans knew all about us using them last time during the Iranian war and allegedly helped with the targetting and so on.Given this, it does not sound too unreasonable to me to suppose that the Iraqi's did fear a threat of chemical attack. The USA were apparently considering the use of other WoMD such as tactical nuclear weapons (widely reported osme time ago) so why not chemical?The key point is: having a suit is not proof of having and using the weapons. If it was then the USA and UK are equally guilty.

    Simon the point is that Iraq and Saddam was ordered to disarm by the UN and the cease fire agreement and he chose not to. The US and the UK were not; and are not in the same situation. And, if you see Iraq as equal to the UK then I am wasting my time. Do you know the breakdown of who sold what to Iraq in the last three decades?
    Russia 25 Billion, France 5 Billion, Germany 5 Billion, China 5 Billion, USA 250 million. But all you talk about is the USA? Why just the USA who is looking to take away the threat? Why is there no equal talk over the other nations who sold so much more and continued to do so despite UN sanctions?

    I know that I am talking to JW's or ExJW's (not that I see much of a difference anymore) and so all of this is probably a waste of time. But, you know when I first came here and real bonifed JWD's were in full swing "defending the faith." They kept saying this is just one big display of narcissistic wounds. Well, I think that there is truth to that. Socialism seems to be a comfortable slide for many exculties who need to new nipple for the formation of attitude. That is how I see it. I hope to be proven wrong. That would be refreshing.

  • Simon
    Simon

    But Simon is all the speech here "free." Or are there rules? Are there punishment for not following YOUR rules? Does Simon only want opinions that are acceptable to him and his henchmen? I don't think that is a fair question FYI but, I see a parity to his origional question.

    Yes, it's free - I have allowed many, many things to be posted that I personally strongly disagree with. I do not think many people would be able to do this in all honesty. As for using words like "henchmen" ... well, that is using colorful language to try and paint a picture that just isn't there and is insulting to people who voluntarily give up their free time to help.

    Again, a simple "proof" is that you are here disagreeing and I am doing my best to explain things. I don't have to do this and wouldn't if I wasn't being fair now would I?

    Believe it or not, but politically I am Conservative. <--- No I do not believe you.

    Well, sorry to disappoint you but I am even a member of the conservative party

    I guess I'm a right-wing communist liberal conscientious abstainer <---- And that is why. Can you define what these terms: right wing, left wing, liberal, conservative, communist, socialist, and conscientious abstainer actually mean from scholarly definitions? Or, is this just political mental masturbation for you? I don't mean to disrespect you. Citizens are no longer taught that these ideologies of politics. They are not unsimilar to ideologies of religion. Your comments mean that basically you stand for nothing because you see it as a pot luck

    I was making a point. Having a certain political bent shold not exlude accepting the good points from other political persuasions. I do not think the right-wing are all right and neither do I think the left-wing are ... they each have some goodf policies and some naff ones.

    BTW: You have completely missed the point re: the "chemical suits are proof of WoMD" argument. All finding chemical weapons suits really proves is that someone has chemical weapons suits. If you argue otherwise then you have to use the same standard and apply it to the western forces too.

    Interesting post for a brand-new user ... perhaps you've posted here before?

  • Pleasuredome
    Pleasuredome
    I am even a member of the conservative party

    oh dear, oh dear. the hole your in is deep enough simon without mentioning that!

  • Simon
    Simon

    yes, but I know it will annoy the hell out of people who deparately want to believe I'm a communist

  • Jayson
    Jayson
    Interesting post for a brand-new user ... perhaps you've posted here before?

    Simon,

    I'll start from the bottom and work my way up. If you do a quick search on me you will see that there are three posts in two days. On my first post I said I am "Jayson Aka Iwasyoungonce" so I am not hiding anything. That way anyone who wishes can lookup where I left off, minus the one thread that I put up in anger that was deleted. I nearly always signed my posts by my name. So, no secrets here. I also stated that I came back because I saw that you had rules of conduct for posts which I thought was a good choice by you that might lead to more constructive conversations as opposed to namecalling and backbiting. On this thread I also said

    "Xena says:

    Xena says: With Dakota I believe his outburst was situational and it was out of sheer frustration and anger. With Dakota I believe his outburst was situational and it was out of sheer frustration and anger.
    My response to Xena was,
    Mine[outburst] was too. It was my hope that the personal slander would stop if enough people did the same. I came back because I saw the new posting rules and I had hoped that things were better. Now I am not so sure."

    This kind of says (I have been here before and exploded.)

    I was making a point. Having a certain political bent shold not exlude accepting the good points from other political persuasions. I do not think the right-wing are all right and neither do I think the left-wing are ... they each have some goodf policies and some naff ones.BTW: You have completely missed the point re: the "chemical suits are proof of WoMD" argument. All finding chemical weapons suits really proves is that someone has chemical weapons suits. If you argue otherwise then you have to use the same standard and apply it to the western forces too.

    And I don't really know how to spell any more clearly Saddam's Iraq was told to account for all weapons or be removed from power via invasion. The "finding WMD" issue now is second to that. I know the media downplays this fact. I do not control the media. I don't know if they are in control of themselves anymore. They are giving way to much info 24/7 in my opinion. There is only so much of a person's opinion I can take for crying out loud. But the issue is and always was Iraq did not live up to it's obligations. The issue of suits is not the issue. The issue is that Iraq lost a war and was ordered to follow the conditions of the ceasefire. It did not.

    Jayson says,

    But Simon is all the speech here "free." Or are there rules? Are there punishment for not following YOUR rules? Does Simon only want opinions that are acceptable to him and his henchmen? I don't think that is a fair question FYI but, I see a parity to his origional question.

    I said in the above that it is not a fair question. Here are a few reasons why, This is your site. You and others "henchmen" [this word is agitation propaganda] are needed to stop someone from stating things that are unacceptable. I am glad you do it and support it. I do not want anarchy speech. I want a peaceful forum. Many protesters are not following the rules of peaceful protesting about the war. They cross the line to sedition and other crimes. The government and the supporters of the government are being called Nazi's Bushies lapdogs and worse. All for keeping me and others safe or choosing to support what they think is lawful and just. Could they step over the line? Yes. Are they now? No, not to me. I look at you and others in the same light. But that is my point. You like the government keep order and allow for a forum of free expression. Yes it will be tested and pushed and people will get mad, or hurt, (mentaly here) but, it will probably be as fair as you can be at the time. But it is a judgment call on your part. (Not that there is anything wrong with that. it's your site.)


    Clear as mud? You said you like to play devils advocate.... Me too.

    Now as to the terms of ideology. You did not take me up on my challenge/offer to know/if youknow what they are. But, it is a peril. Here;

    "Left-Right Continuum."

    It originated in 1789 during the French revolution. It reflects these concepts: On the left are radicals, they favor immediate often drastic change. in the center are moderates they agree that there may be a need for change but want it more gradual in nature. Those who resist any change in its (Authority) powers are on the right.

    Left-Favorable to change, egalitarian, corruption is because of institutions, humans are good.

    Right-Elitists hostile to change, humans are selfish, weak, and corrupt by nature.

    The further you travel these lines the more polarized your attitude.

    Left-Communism, Socialism, Anarchism, liberalism.
    Right-Nazism, Fascism, Conservatism, Anarchism.

    Now the Liberal/Left fear of American military intervention in the Middle East and the claims of radical right is that when the right becomes extreme it also demands change but this change has a goal of power and not the benefit of humanity. (This however is not what Bush has done.)

    Ideologies: "Politics In Action." pg. 9.

    Maybe you knew the basics of this. If so then never mind. If not well then there you go. Each term here has a chapter dedicated to it in the scholarly book BTW.

    I said a while back "I AM DONE HERE with several 4 letter words." There is a lot you do not know Simon, and it is no longer realevant. Had I known about the other sites and private hate Emails being brought to light here in this forum about people who post here as you have aired about DR that might have helped at the time. But I did not even think about that. I took each situation on each site with each person as seperate. I kept private mail private. Come to think of it I did that kind of thing IRL with JW's to my own regret.

  • Jayson
    Jayson

    In America Only in America
    We're slaves to be free
    Only in America we kill the unborn
    To make ends meet
    Only in America
    Sexuality is democracy
    Only in America we stamp our god
    "In God We Trust"
    What is right or wrong
    I don't know who to believe in
    My soul sings a different song
    In America
    Church bell's ringing
    Pass the plate around
    The choir is singing
    As their leader falls to the ground
    Please mister prophet man
    Tell me which way to go
    I gave my last dollar
    Can I still come to your show
    What is right or wrong
    I don't know who to believe in
    My soul sings a different song
    In America
    I am right and you are wrong
    I am right and you are wrong
    I am right and you are wrong
    No one's right and no one's wrong
    In America Creed

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