by nicolaou 93 Replies latest members politics
Honestly, I don't get it. As I understand, the Affordable Care Act aims to improve care for millions of Americans by providing access to affordable health insurance and regulating the health insurance industry in the US.
Seriously, why do so many Americans appear enraged by this or is that a misrepresentation by the British media?
Because we Americans have a general dislike of Government controlling anything more than it needs to since it's usually pretty lousy at most of what it does. Obamacare ended as a washed up version of what was originally intended to be a big step towards a single payer system. Even washed up as it ended being, it's an ultimately unsustainable law which will inevitably take us to a "more must be done" to fix it, which will just be another step in the ladder towards single payer.
Also, it was pushed through in a very partisan way.
The law is great for the lower classes, didn't make a difference for the upper class, but was lousy for the middle. I, myself, as a younger middle class citizen pay 3x more for less coverage now in Obamacare than I did before it.... but hey, at least now I get coverage for mental health, lord knows we exJWs need it ;)
Many Americans are really keen on "personal responsibility" and think the state has no business providing healthcare. They think everyone should pay their own way.
Of course they don't mind pooling resources to protect against huge loss for things like car insurance, but someone getting sick? Damn those failures, they should have done better.
I do agree somewhat with the argument that companies should't be forced to pay for contraception and there should be some disincentive for people who abuse their health and become a burden on society (e.g. through smoking or obesity) but a civil society should provide basic necessities of life which includes health-care. Provide is probably the problem word - it should make sure people have access to it and for some that will mean stepping in to help.
It's incredible to us, coming from the UK, that in the US people who become seriously ill can literally lose everything, their house, their life savings, trying to pay for often over-priced treatment and, when the money runs out, so does the treatment. You died. Bye.
Even regular "life" things like having a baby can be astronomically expensive if you don't have coverage. If you are found injured at the side of the road and don't have insurance? You get taken to the poor-people shitty hospital / given a big bill.
US health-care is incredibly expensive because of the broken, cherry-picked insurance system and there are huge corporates who can lobby to keep it that way. It's one of the achievements of our age that they have managed to convince so many Americans that they shouldn't want affordable and accessible healthcare for all.
Obamacare / ACA wasn't a solution because it was half-baked and relied on young, healthy people signing up to pay more to make it make sense. This is one of those things where EVERYONE has to pay into it to make it work and that is something that only government can do. It wasn't single-payer because the republicans wouldn't go along with it so that's the best they could do. Now it looks like Trump wants to just write a cheque and add it all to the deficit. Politics.
Socialized medicine is "evil" to many Americans because of the "socialized" aspect of it. But everyone is OK with socialized defence, roads and so many other aspects of life where the government legislates, taxes and coordinates things.
Political discourse in America is completely broken right now. You couldn't get people to agree what color the sky was (it would probably start with someone complaining that the word 'color' shouldn't be used because it's racist).
On the surface, it sounds great and has helped a lot of people. I'll explain why I think it sucks:
My BIL lives about an hour away from me in Pennsylvania. He and his wife never had health insurance as it was too expensive, about $24,000 a year ($2000/month). That's more than most people's mortgages.
Obamacare came out. Now for between $200-400 a month, they have health care. Sounds good, right?
Not so much. Where I live in New Jersey (just an hour away) I looked up how much it would cost for me to get Obamacare. Mind you, I'm a student and have almost no income. It would cost about $22,000 a year (again, basically a mortgage and impossible for me to obtain). Why?
My ZIP code.
Evidently, your Obamacare discount is determined almost entirely by ZIP (postal) code. I live in a wealthy ZIP (though I myself am not wealthy) and my brother lives in a "poorer" area ZIP (it's actually a lovely area). He gets a huge discount, I get basically no discount.
I double-checked this out with a friend from down the street from me who was shopping for insurance -- he said he had called up, and they said that was the rate for our ZIP.
SO, there you have it. At least that's my perspective on why the ACA sucks.
NOTE: as of now, I do have affordable health care (roughly $5000 or so a year) but it's through my school. Once I graduate, I'm out of luck (unless I find a job providing health insurance).
This is a very, very complicated, multi-faceted issue, but the primary driver seems to be that homogenous societies tend to view these kinds of social programs as social insurance. I pay in my fair share and if a loved one or I come down with cancer, we don't have to sit by helplessly while the person dies without access to quality care.
Diverse societies tend to view these programs as a struggle for limited resources. Why should I have to pay for (or give up access to) quality healthcare in order to serve lazy, undeserving segments of the population?
It's sadly a deeply-ingrained part of the human psyche formed through millennia of tribal living.
That's not to say this is the only factor at work, but it's significant enough to push public opinion 60/40 in favor to 60/40 against.
I've been watching many Europeans all my life brag about how much more civilized their societies are, but the social welfare system is already breaking down in many places and will continue to do so as immigration continues unabated from decidedly un-European parts of the world.
I for one, have had my premiums go up for the past 6 years at around 20-25% each year. 2017 for just one person, my premium is $388/month. My memory is unsure about what I paid years ago, but seems like it use to be less than $100/mo. In August my doctor quit and moved and in Nov the clinic closed its doors. Searched around for another close by doctor and now my insurance is "out of network", so this year I have to travel 25 miles to go to in network, whereas I use to drive less than 2 miles. To me, it seems like all this was brought on by force, to the insurance companies, by the govt. Its like the govt tried to help, but made things a little worse for the working stiffs here. Aso if you don't buy insurance this year, the minimum penalty on your tax return will be $675. To help subsidize people that can't pay or won't pay. Its quite a burden on the average working joe.
Obama's health care is a hybrid between government regulation and the profit orientated insurers. It ultimately fed more customers into the profit maw.
Only a clean sweep, to a single payer system as proposed by Bernie Sanders would cure what ails America's care for all ills. Incredibly the arch-conservative Trump has now promised just that. If he can fix Boeing's pricing, can he do that too.?
It was a very poorly thought out and executed plan. The intentions were honorable but the results were very negative. I will use myself as an example:
I have what is termed a 'silver' health plan which is the middle of the road plan.
My job pays 100% of the cost (thankfully) which is $10,523.16 a year! I am single with no children and work part time. I make just over $50,000.00 a year and if I had to pay my own health insurance, that would reduce my gross income by over 20%.
This year, I had to have a kidney stone operation and also have liver troubles and a tumor on one of my adrenal glands. My out of pocket expenses for the year were just under $7,000.00 including my deductible. The whole scheme is a tax on the middle class in order to provide health insurance for those who have never had it. My accountant says in the last 2 years he has never seen so many of his clients become 'insurance poor' . I believe in helping the disadvantaged but there has to be a better way.
Hi,
A better question is why did they ever name it the "White House". Majority of people only look at the color. Politicians have been promising health care for the poor for ages...never happened, now we get this black president and it happens...on a black's man's watch. As far as America is concerned it started with the Mayflower and or Columbus discovering & so certain persuasions feel this is their land and will always be theirs. Sure they discovered the new land which was new to them but folks were already living here. Everybody knows the story of the cowboys and Indians, so I'll spare you. & Simply some folks are anti-black so much so that they would much rather die than to take advantage of ObamaCare.
I did see on YouTube that there were folks that were against it, but now thank God for it because without it they might be here today. Americans are always belly aching...don't pay us no mind....Won't lift a finger to help but complain all the time....
Oh and another thing there a millions of Americans that can afford health care they don't need medicare nor Medicaid, they are rich but cheat the system. Also, if everyone got ObamaCare and all drs. accepted it some folks are too snooty they wouldn't want to sit next to an immigrant in the waiting room.
No the British are not misrepresenting the US. We are spoiled rotten and the majority of the voices in America isn't white ....It's 2017, and we still have race issues.
I tell you this America will miss Obama, he wasn't perfect but he had compassion, well as much compassion as he could have being in charge and having a lot of power. He cared about the people. He didn't go in there just to help only blacks, & that could have been his agenda but he was fair.
Obama was the first president that the world stood by their TV's to see if the first black president would be elected...not just the US but the world, that says a lot...and for anyone with blood running through their veins should feel some the same way the world felt.....happy and never thought it would happen. Every one looks to the US that you can be anything here & it's true...anybody can be anybody, if Ronald Regan and x actor can be president, so why not a black man...
Tor
"Obama-care" is a complicated and awkward marriage of government regulation and the "free" market.
What the Canadians have, Single Payer, is much superior. It is - someone from Canada correct me if I'm wrong - where government handles the insurance but doctors and hospitals are private. The conservative opinion of socialized medicine does not apply to Canada which doesn't have socialized medicine.
Obama could have pushed Single Payer but his character is too weak to stand up to the Republican elite. He thought he could compromise with them if he offered something like his plan. He was wrong; people would have preferred Single Payer over that monstrosity called Obama-care.
