Question to shunned persons

by HesterPryne 76 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Had Enough

  Hi Stephenw20:

  Just got back online and saw your answer.

  I just can't fathom how they expect to get away with blatently lying about shunning on such a public place as their website and expect to get away with it.

  More and more people (non-JWs) are becoming aware of the truth about the destruction of families the org. has caused through shunning. They are coming to know that JW family members do shun other family members because they have to.

  How can they explain that away? I'd like to hear their answer to that one.

  Had Enough
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  Gozz

  I think family members have a responsibility not to shun one of their own. You need some much hate in you to be able to do that.

  Drue, good comments. But are you sure elders discuss the details of the shunning policy with prospective baptisimal candidates? I didn't know about shunning until recently. Disfellowshipping was clear, but not shunning.
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  Drue

  Gozz,

  I agree with you that many newly converted JWs do not have a clear picture of shunning.

  …are you sure elders discuss the details of the shunning policy with prospective baptisimal candidates?

  I think much depends on elders individually. The ‘Organized to Accomplish Our Ministry’ (p198 in my Russian copy) has a question about ‘what the congregation does when someone is sinning but is not repentant’ and it lists 1 Corinthians 5:9-13 which says ‘do not associate…’ and also Titus 3:10 which says ‘reject him…’. Now, who those verses apply to is another question, and the elders may or may not chose to emphasise this point, imo.

  I personally had a very stressful experience with that. When I already considered my disengagement and knew shunning was not scriptural I had to discuss this portion with a baptismal candidate. I tried to downplay and moderate the Society’s viewpoint but the elder who was with me decided that it was a question that needed additional attention. So he asked the candidate: Say, you meet someone (df or da person) on the street – will you greet him or her? The sister hesitated evidently thinking what to say: the answer the elder expected from her, or her genuine understanding. He then continued: Suppose he (apostate) approaches you, looking at you, perhaps smiling or waving his hand – will you greet him? More pause and tension and the sister says, stammering, y-y-yes, I’d greet him. I applauded inside.

  The elder continues: Well, how can you say you’d greet him? What does the Bible say? Predictably, the sister quotes 2rd John, still hesitating if she can justifiably apply it to everyone who left. ‘So would you greet him if the Bible says ‘do not say a greeting to him’? The sister bursts in tears and says – no, she wouldn’t. I sit there, eyes to the floor, numb. I was a MS and being there with an elder at a baptismal discussion was certainly a ‘grand privilege for me from Jehovah’.

  Since I disassociated, I met that sister on the street. She didn’t look at me and hurried away. Guess that’s part of my pay for my cowardice to discuss the matter with her while still in the org and another reason why I personally found the system that has such near total control over their members repelling.
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  outnfree

  I have no family in, only one friend that I SORELY miss and want to SPRING from the trap that is the WTBTS, so I would welcome the new light and any approach she might make. There are a few others I'd like to share insights with, but it is not critical to me. Like RR, I disassociated myself, well aware of the consequences, only having remained as long as I did in order to try to reach my beloved friend.
  Unlike those of you who have a hard time understanding how people can turn love on and off and are resentful, I have a different take. They have not "turned off" the love. They are repressing it at great personal cost. At least I was, when I shunned another dear friend for over a year before I finally gathered the courage to do what was right and go beg her forgiveness. I was so fearful that she would reject my overture as "too little, too late." Instead, she said, (because I was still IN) "It must have taken alot for you to come here." I just bawled!!!! Now I know I'm generalizing when I say "they have not 'turned off' the love" because some in the congregation and even in your own families did not really love you in the first place. But the ones who would come to your door, did. Do. But are enslaved to an authority which they wrongly equate with God. I am ferverently praying for my sister's release from captivity. I am, in my own foolish way, sending her love notes that thus far she has not ignored (subject lines in e-mails -- she sees those, even if she doesn't read the post which she would need to open).

  On another note, I am going to be like Drue (if I ever run into anyone from my old congregation -- which I haven't since I DA'd myself 5 weeks ago): I will greet them with a greeting that demands a response. We will see if anyone responds politely. But even if they do not, I refuse to shun them, just because they feel a need to shun me. (Sorry about your pain on this, Drue. Perhaps having seen you, she, too, will reflect on that pre-baptismal interview and work her way out.)

  outnfree
  unedited -- too painful
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  larc

  outnfree,

  I like what you said, because it captures what I believe as well. Our family who is still "in" does love us, and I think it gives them great pain to have to follow the rules. I think they have great courage to bend the rules to show whatever minimal affection they feel comfortable in showing to us. We are not the only ones under stress. They are as well.
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  thinkers wife

  OutandFree,
  Thanks for the insight. I believe you are probably very right. The one person I have in mind, whom I also miss sorely is a woman I studied with.
  We had a brief interval, where she talked to me for a week or two. But I felt compelled to tell her that if the elders found out, she could be disfellowshipped.
  When we were studying, she refused to study the last chapter of the book with me, because she said she never wanted our study to end. When she told me she had done research on the laws of Da'ing, she said she wished I would have left it like not studying the last chapter of the book. She could have done very well with not knowing the rules. She said she was going back into mourning.
  Knowing these things helps intellectually, but not with my heart.
  TW
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  myMichelle

  Had Enough said:

  More and more people (non-JWs) are becoming aware of the truth about the destruction of families the org. has caused through shunning. They are coming to know that JW family members do shun other family members because they have to.

  I'm one of the resident nonJWs here, and I have shared this WTS policy with some of my friends and my family. It never fails to drop people's jaws and widen their eyes with disbelief.

  Every time I read a story here about shunning I am flabbergasted. My family is not perfect, but we always support one another, even if we greatly disagree with that family member. Always. Shunning is a policy/practice that I just cannot fathom. I know there are disfunctional families everywhere, but this is the first time I have been exposed to a "loving" group of people that encourage such abnormal behavior.

  My sympathies to you who have been hurt by this policy,
  Michelle

  The most deadly of all sins is the mutilation of a child's spirit. -Erik H. Erikson
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  stephenw20

  I see it takes a lot of inner strength to get to the point of letting your FREAK FLAG fly........but the alternative is to DENY yourself who you are.......

  not being able to make decisions for other people is a TWO edge sword..........they have TO CHOOSE as well....and THEY have to live ...carrying that around.......if they choose this course......

  I remember an elder who was close to my dad.....for many years.....

  after my dad did his disappearing act..this elder always asked about my dad......... we were in different congregations..and only saw each other a few times a year........

  even if this elder and I dont see eye to eye on every issue under the sun... he showed respect to my dad........... and that will never disappear from my person......for every one of him tho there are 25 on the other side..........its unfortunate the brainsurgery that takes place.... and the artificial hearts that are transplanted......

  and we still have a choice......

  s
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  Had Enough

  Hi stephenw20:

  You are right on when you said:
  

  its unfortunate the brainsurgery that takes place.... and the artificial hearts that are transplanted......

  It bothers me to think back to my days of following what I thought was Bible principle. I did the "don't talk to them" routine even though I felt so bad doing it. Something didn't sit right with me about it, but I thought "hey...the Bible does say don't even say a greeting so who am I to question the Bible and the 'spirit-guided GB'"

  Once I started researching what the context was of all the scriptures they use to "uphold" their shunning policy, then "the lights went on". I can't believe I didn't notice that before. But like so many other times on any subject, when I couldn't explain a certain scripture, I'd just skim past it and hope the householder wouldn't ask me what that meant. (must be part of the brainsurgery) Probably that's typical for many JWs too. I'm beginning to see how 'not alone' I am in my thinking then and now.

  btw....happy 500 --I noticed your post on Fredhall's thread and said it there too.

  Had Enough
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  Had Enough

  Hi myMichelle:

  I understand your disbelief and shock. My non-JW in-laws also cannot fathom in the least how my JW family can shun my da'd son. They have expressed to me exactly what you said:

  My family is not perfect, but we always support one another, even if we greatly disagree with that family member.

  I have tried to show them why the JWs believe the way they do from the scriptures and they still can't understand it. Bottom line is because it just isn't natural to treat family (and anyone for that matter) like that.

  Like I said before...I can't understand how the WTS can outright lie on their website when they say JWs don't shun family members. Have they forgotten their 1981 Watchtower Sept.15 articles? They don't mince any words in making it crystal clear that any family member not under your roof is to be totally shunned unless there's a family matter to take care of...and usually that is translated as a medical "life-threatening emergency" or a funeral.

  How sad and how despicable!!!

  Had Enough