Are the J.W's reaching a "Tipping point"?

by karter 53 Replies latest jw friends

  • Vidiot

    steve2 - "Religion simultaneously drives you crazy AND consoles."

    Like alcohol... the cause of - and solution to - all of life's problems.

  • Dunedain

    It is really a domino affect at this point. I do beleive the WT is at a crucial point, and is slowly imploding. This "slow" imploding, however, will soon turn into the rapid demise of the WT, like the final sands in an hourglass.

    The OP's description of his KH, is exactly how most of our old cong's were, and are. It takes time for major changes to start, but once true integral, fundamental, changes start to happen, its only a matter of time before it "blooms".

    The Congregations are sick, the healthy flowers(older, compassionate elders) have died, or are put out to pasture. The idiot "yes" men, that 10 years ago, would NEVER have even made servant, are "running" things. There is NO "new blood" coming in, or any inteligent people of worth joining this religion. The RF are simple minded, poverty stricken, un-educated, drones.

    This is NOW the norm, and its taken 10 years to get to this low point. Now the sickness will grow exponentously. In another 10 years, the hanger ons, and quiet doubters, will FINALLY give up, and realize the sesspool that the once "grand" congregation has become. The sickness will now be at critical mass. No fruit will bloom, no love will reside there, only doubt, and pain and hurt. The branches will all be broken, the roots long withered and died away, and all that are left will wallow in the mud that is left behind.

  • elderINewton

    While many are hoping for a tipping point, an event needs to trigger the tip. One can hope that in this information age that someone finally spills the beans on something internal that will shake the organization to the core. Without that event it will just get people coming and going like any cult. People are too unsure and scared to do anything else without an event. To me even with my extended family, those "in" barely know a damn thing. Those that know, know TTATT, and are either waiting it out to escape or not, or just running away.

    I think we have more leaking than a tip at this stage, but that is just my perception. To me the irony is that the leaking was made greater by tv.borg with the GB punching holes in the hull of the ship.

  • Zyron

    I don’t think there will be a tipping point that has the masses leaving in droves. Lots of major changes and disappointments characterise JWs and no major shift downwards in numbers has occurred.

    My congregation, where I try to visit as little as I can, has elders in their 40s and 50s with decent jobs and are fairly intelligent so it’s a pretty warm congregation. I guess in this case even where attendees know TTAT they will stay and endure the nonsense because they find a sense of belonging and community.

    I do know whenever I socialise with other JWs very rarely do topics revolve around JWs or the good news the JW Kingdom, the discussion is invariably secular, jobs, holidays, sport, people etc.

    Where someone is adversely affected because they were or are judged harshly, that might give them cause to question the whole JW world.

    Where people work with others e.g. an office environment they are exposed to people who are relatively happy without being a JW, that might give them cause to question. Or, where people like me have reached 50+ hearing the same nonsense for over 50 years i.e. how close we are to the end this will give rise to questioning and then a visit to boards such as this, then you quickly become mentally out of the JW world. (The reason why JWs are told to stay away from website like this).

    What I do feel will happen is that a significant number will evolve into nominal JWs like you have nominal Catholics, Protestants etc. who remain for the social aspects.

    The young who gain an education, beyond secondary school, will quickly realise that truth is not absolute and to claim JWs have the truth is arrogant and presumptuous at the very least so they’ll leave sooner or later.

    The consolidation of assets, sweating the assets i.e. using kingdom halls fully (i.e. most days of the week) and the move to digital rather than print will ensure funding is secure for the future. This means will not wither and die. It will trundle along with a core of super zealous ones and a merry band of apathetic followers.

    My observation of the new ones that get baptised from my congregation, other than children, is they have some type of emotional problem. You don’t get successful people with high income, good jobs, educated and emotionally secure joining.

    How many sane people really believe in a few years they’ll be petting lions and tigers, living in a big house on a hill with a stream flowing and an abundance of fruit growing in their large garden with everybody around being their best friend? And, their loved ones will rise from the dead? But wait, this can only be your dream come true if and only if you join and remain loyal to!

  • cofty

    Good analysis Zyron

  • ToesUp

    'I think you have pretty much hit the nail on the head. The good elders no longer want to be elders due to the politics of the watchtower, leaving this wide open for the many narcissistic sociopaths becoming elders.'

    Glad someone bumped this thread. We have experienced the above. All that there will be left is narcissistic/sociopath Elders and they will eventually feed off of the other Elders that have the same traits. It will be interesting and entertaining to watch.

    The ones we know only stay for the socialization and the admiration.

  • Cadellin

    I have been inactive for about a decade but my husband is still an elder. I happened to read this past Sunday's WT study article and was struck by how therapeutically-focused it was. What I mean is, the whole thrust of the article (and really, the magazine) is how to cope emotionally and mentally. Prayer, etc. is essentially reduced to therapy--do this and you'll feel better. That is, I think, what the whole religion has become. There is no longer any real doctrinal "meat" other than coping mechanisms and obedience lessons.

    A second point related to Witness life: My husband was out in service with another elder and told me, when he got home, how he was able to make a pitch for his business to this other elder and the elder was going to arrange a meeting with someone in his own company. I said, "You were talking business out in service?!" since I remember how that was a no-no. My husband said, "Sure, we always do." Like it was normal.

    Which, I guess, it is. Now.

  • Phizzy

    Malcolm Gladwell's book from which the expression "Tipping Point" comes is mainly concerned with how and when a new trend, fashion or simply an idea goes viral, and why.

    He makes this point : "The success of any kind of social epidemic is heavily dependent on the involvement of people with a particular and rare set of social gifts".

    I would say JW's now lack such people in a big way, so hopefully this dearth will herald the demise of the JW Org.

    I think we will look back and say the Tipping Point at which their slide started happened a few years back.

  • slimboyfat

    I think JWs may be approaching a collapse in numbers or at least a significant decline. Because while JWs in some respects seem to be carrying on as before, with smaller increases, beneath the surface the core of the JW community has been steadily eroded. So that what appears as a solid structure, may have been reduced to an empty shell, awaiting a shock that will trigger collapse.

    For years now we've had:

    No book studies in homes to promote sense of community.

    Special pioneers laid off, no longer providing backbone to many congregations.

    Gilead missionaries no longer sent to promote growth in expanding territories.

    Office of district overseer scrapped, so circuit overseers now have little prospect of "promotion".

    Traditional form of door to door ministry undermined by being replaced by ineffective and disheartening cart witnessing.

    Weird overlapping doctrines that don't even make sense on their own terms any more.

    A growing realisation among many JWs that the organisation does have at least some problems with handling abuse, and the media are not totally lying about the subject.

    Young JWs are choosing not to get baptised.

    Instead many are choosing to get an education despite "counsel" to avoid.

    The stance of JWs on gay people is now so out of step with mainstream society it is beginning to cause serious embarrassment, in particular for young JWs.

    The average age of JWs is increasing. (Always a strong predictor of religious decline as shepherdless pointed out)

    There is so little substance to the Watchtower literature these days there is little to keep JWs intellectually occupied.

    Hardly anyone is converted to JWs through the ministry these days.

    As print literature is abandoned, even the sense of achievement of "placing" physical literature is removed.

    The idea that 1914 is any kind of anchor for the end times looks increasingly ridiculous.

    Thousands of former bethelites have been reassigned, disheartened and disillusioned to local congregations.

    Bethel service is a less realistic goal for young JWs as printing is being abandoned.

    Decline breeds decline. The numbers have already turned south in many western countries, and declines have a tendency to reinforce further decline.

    All these developments, and more, haven't produced significant declines yet. But they may have undermined the coherence and integrity of the JW edifice, such that it is now very vulnerable to any shock or trigger it may encounter.

  • pepperheart

    A tipping point YES according to their own websites they have closed 20 branch offices around the world

    they are printing 40 million magazines a month less

    They have moved from new york to sell prime land off

    they are due to be selling the london headquaters off

    they have kicked out 1,000s of people from bethels around the world

    They have taken contral of all the KHs so that when the money from the bethels at new york and london run out

    they can start selling kingdom halls off

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