by D8TA 113 Replies latest jw friends
D8TA
http://news.findlaw.com/cnn/docs/terrorism/hr3162.pdf
Above is a direct link to a text of the Patriot act. I've spent over a half hour just glancing its 131 pages. I didn't reference all the statutes it changes. HOWEVER, I did note that in ALL CASES of surviellence, requests for records, etc, it's ALL DONE with the oversight of a judge. Hardly sounds like a police state to me.
And did I say anything about a "police state".
Try again skippy.
D8TA, in my old senile state, I bend to your superior logic and intelligence. Yes, we have no freedoms anymore, Damn Bush! Heaven forbid we look to any group that has shown a propensity to violate someone elses freedom to life, yours to swiftly get onto a airplane takes precedent.
Yes, it is absolutely no ones business what those 19 men that hijacked those airplanes on Sept 11 and flew them into buildings read or were doing prior to their benevolet crashing of those airplanes. Hell, we sure wouldn't want to implicate anyone else that may have helped them, would we? No, let's keep everything totally private.
My only junior high, no elementary school logic is, the next time you need to fly off to some hand holding march to sing your chorus' of Kumbaya, if those planes end up hijacked and heading for some buildings, I will be sure to tell anyone that it is absoluterly none of their business. Those terrorists have the freedom to murder and it is protected vehemently by the radical left.
Thank you for setting this old ignorant man straight on what real freedoms are. Here, I thought they were living a decent life and earning a decent living. I thought the notion of traveling safely and not worrying about being blown up was a freedom. Who would have thought?
Edited to add: Us aging senile old farts prefer Jif over Skippy.
Edited by - DakotaRed on 10 February 2003 15:43:52
You really think that I hold a position to it being a "Bush" problem? Do you people view me as a "liberal"? Here's some news for everybody...I don't hold political leanings to any party. I rather live this life making my own decisions and beliefs, then following some political idealism.
This isn't about BUSH, damn it. This isn't about Clinton either. This is about the compromise that has been made to gain greater government control over the population of the U.S. of A. Read what I've been typing here. To me, the DNC & GOP are like the two bullies on the block. They like to raise a ruckess to keep the neighborhood in line...but they sleep together at night.
The writing is on the wall. Do what you want with it.
I just re-read this whole thread, and I think it's really lame that things like this can't be discussed in a civilized manner.
You know, the Americans are the only ones on this board that argue about their government. Why is that? The canadians diss their Prime Minister and nobody cares. But in America, you diss Bush and you're gauranteed to have several people jump down your throat. People need to seriously LIGHTEN UP.
D8TA's post in merely for awareness. That's it. It stresses the need to be aware of what's going on in the world and with the laws being passed. There's no question the purpose of the laws - they are to protect us from terrorism. That's not debatable. But could they ever be used against us if the definition of "terrorist" suddenly took on a different meaning? That remains to be seen. Again, something to think about, especially in times like these when our lives could change at any moment.
Some people look at things and take it at face value. If I were Arab-American, I would be especially concerned about these latest laws. Would it not be to my advantage to really ponder over these laws? Would it be wise for an Arab-AMerican to join an anti-war movement right now?
Since when was it senseless to speculate on things? It's wise to speculate on certain things - for example, would not an arab-american speculate what could possibly happen to them if another terrorist attack occured on American soil? Would it not be wise for them to be up-to-date on the current laws and happenings in this country so that they could take every precautionary measure possible to ensure their safety?
Just because I'm not Arab-American doesn't mean I shouldn't be aware of the details of these laws either. Whether or not these laws end up to our disadvantage in any way remains to be seen, as D8TA CLEARLY stated more than once. The fact remains that the government now has power to monitor our lives a lot more closely than before these laws were passed. Granted, as long as we're not involved in terrorist activity, we'll probably have nothing to worry about. This remains to be seen.
If you don't think there is anything to concern yourself with, then don't. But some people think it's to their advantage to consider possible under-lying meanings behind things, and they, as an American, have that right. I don't understand why some people think everything is so cut and dry - how they say they don't trust politicians but adhere and believe everything they tell us. But...whatever...some things are not meant to understand.
Farkel, since I'm evidently the young pup you were referring to, maybe you can enlighten me as to what exactly your age and wisdom knows that I'm unable to understand.
Yeru & Dakota - Here's an example right here on the board!
Edited by - Trauma_Hound on 10 February 2003 19:19:27
Thats it. Lets just have some good ol' fashion anarchy, that way the Govt will be out of our business.
Naw I say, let's not trample the constitution, and let it actually mean something.
ahhh TH, therein lies the problem. No one can agree to its meaning.
I believe these laws to be a reaction to a crisis. We narrowly missed some key information that would have allowed us to prevent the tragedy on 911, we missed information that would have allowed us to interdict bin laden. We were about to go into a war, and did go into the at war beginning with Afghanistan, and needed to be able to find out as much as we could to protect our boys going in as well as the people at home. We have changed the Taliban out, we are about to rid ourselves of another enemy. Once things are ironed out, we will repeal the laws and get back to normal. Right now we NEED to be able to keep the arabs we have in Cuba, both for information, to lower the number of active terrorists and enemies we have to face and to give the enemy something to think about.
In times of crisis rules change. On a war footing you have to make some concessions. Ask all the activated reserves whose lives are being turned upside down. They will return to normal.
Grunt
