by D8TA 113 Replies latest jw friends
I make a thread about the Patriot Act/Dept. of Homeland Defense, and show how the U.S. Government and Federal/Local Authorities are abusing it.
Umm, no, you made allegations, I provided a link to the Act itself that says all this is done under the supervion of a Judge. Where's the abuse?
Umm, no, you made allegations, I provided a link to the Act itself that says all this is done under the supervion of a Judge. Where's the abuse?
Again, I have provided links as to Universities, Protestors, and Private Citizens who have been affected directly by the Patriot Act. Should you get off your lazy ass and read those links...you wouldn't make stupid comments like this.
You are making an idiot of yourself. Making a post about the Patriot Act does indeed show what it's about, and I have shown the abuse happening because of it. Making the the post of just the Patriot Act, does not prove nor disprove what I have presented.
And just because it's "under the supervision of a Judge" doesn't have the "magic wand" affect of making the provided abuses and such disappear.
Try again.
I wonder if Sadaam will run for the mountains like Osama did.
bet on it. hes got enough body doubles to hold down the fort while he slips quietly into the night........
aa
TH,
Where did you get such a crackpot article??
The U.S. gassing its own people?? And you use CS gas as an example!! Come On! What a joke! Yes, CS gas sucks. Ive been gassed by it and Im sure Yeru has too. Its Riot Control gas used by the Miltary. So what. Tear gas is bad 2, does that mean were gassing our people? NO! And as far as an expolosive reaction- well thats just plain bullshit. Oh, and why did the kids have gas masks in the first place? Why did the adults have gas masks?? OH MY BAD! I forgot that they were a bunch of nuts who thought their leader was Jesus Christ!!!! And they killed some feds!! Ohhhhhh but we shouldnt have used some Riot Gas on them (those poor people *puke*).
TH, you are scraping the bottom of the barrel with this crap. At least post some good stuff on how we exposed our troops to fallout in bomb tests, Bikini Island fallout, syphilis testing on blacks, no epa protection on black projects, etc..etc...........
According this crappy article, we should let Saddam butcher who ever he wants becuase we have made mistakes in the past. According to this arguement, we should have let Hitler kill ALL the Jews since we killed the Native Americans. Wow, how peacefull of you........
Soldiers who possess a simple mind, whose emotions are easy to manipulate. You guys just aren't learning what your own Army has taught you....sad.
Where did you get such a crackpot article??
He provided the link at the beginning of the article, nitwit. Shall I point out some more obvious points as to your stupid outbursts? Or will you calm down and think before you reply?
Tear gas is bad 2, does that mean were gassing our people? NO!
YES! Foggy over tear gas safety
NOW Magazine
May 17, 2001
By ENZO DI MATTEO
Toronto -- CS, or chlorobenzylidene malonitrile, is billed by manufacturers and police alike as a "less lethal" crowd-control alternative. But more than a month after the last tear gas canister hit the pavement, many exposed to the gas are reporting adverse health effects.
There's good evidence that these are not merely psychological complaints. A growing body of info in the U.S. as well as a special report of the European Parliament says CS has caused heart failure, liver damage and death from exposure in close quarters. More recent findings also link exposure to abnormal chromosome growth.
NDP MP Joe Comartin, who was himself overcome by fumes in Quebec, has formally asked the feds to release "an exact chemical composition of all chemicals" used at the summit. The government's response has been a stony silence. So intense was the chemical fallout that residents of neighbourhoods around the Summit site reported finding a white residue on their lawn furniture. The Quebec City public health office issued a warning to residents to wear rubber gloves and protective eyewear when handling the residue. The department also warned residents to throw out exposed food, replace air conditioning filters and wash down the outside of their homes. Jacques Perron, a spokesperson for Quebec City mayor Jean-Paul L'Allier, says some residents are considering pursuing legal action.
Some protestors are still experiencing respiratory problems four weeks later. Winnie Ng, a Canadian Labour Congress rep, is still coughing and wheezing. "I was in bed for days," she says. Others NOW spoke to report suffering from flu-like symptoms and being disoriented for several days. Maggie MacDonald of Science for Peace says she's received close to 100 e-mails from women reporting premature menstruation. What's particularly unnerving for her is that premature menstruation is usually associated with exposure to organo-chlorides.
"There's a whole debate about whether these chemicals are hormone disruptors," MacDonald says. "There's a very good chance that they are." A 1989 study printed in the Journal Of The American Medical Association pointed out that "absorbed CS is metabolized to cyanide (a known carcinogen) in peripheral tissues."
One of the authors, Bailus Walker, a professor of environmental toxicology at Howard University, studied pulmonary distress when he visited hospitals in South Korea in 87 after tear gas was used by the government against citizens. "The worst I have seen is respiratory damage in children," he says. "I've seen cases of chromosomal damage -- the wrong dose can make it poison. CS can be very, very toxic."
Indeed, the United Nations has documented dozens of deaths from exposure to CS in Northern Ireland and the West Bank. The European Parliament was worried enough about the potential effects of CS to recommend a ban on its use in 99.
CS gas used in Quebec the subject of controversy elsewhere in the world. "All chemical irritants used for riot control should be considered as toxic chemicals," says the EU study.
Yet CS remains a favourite of law enforcers the world over. Madness, says Kirk Murphy, a Los Angeles-based clinician who was among a team of doctors to treat protestors at the WTO battle in Seattle in 1999. He co-authored a study to be released next month by the Los Angeles-based Physicians for Social Responsibility detailing the chronic health effects experienced by about 200 gas-exposed protestors.
Murphy says the neurological symptoms he documented -- forgetfulness, dizziness and tremors -- are more consistent with exposure to cholinesterase inhibitors, or nerve agents. He's not suggesting that manufacturers are using nerve agents in their tear gas. But Murphy argues that too little is known about its synergistic effects to warrant any use of CS at all.
"There's an enormous gap in the regulation of these agents, and as we saw in Seattle and in Quebec, they are often used in a manner in which thousands of people who are not part of the conflict are exposed involuntarily to very high doses."
There are very few safeguards in Canada when it comes to the contents of tear gas canisters. Most bought by police forces in Canada are manufactured in the U.S. Their importation is covered under the prohibited weapons section of the Criminal Code.
But what's actually in the canisters is regulated by the manufacturers themselves. There is no requirement for Health Canada, for example, to carry out spot checks of munitions at the border. "It stands to reason that there would be some kind of (check), but (there's) none that I'm aware of," says Health Canada rep Andrew Swift.
And in these matters, it turns out, citizens have no right to know. Take the WTO battle in Seattle. There, methylene chloride, a solvent considered a possible carcinogen by both the U.S.-based National Toxicology Program and the International Agency for Research on Cancer, was present in tear gas used by police.
The Washington Toxics Coalition made the discovery after filing a Freedom of Information request. Methylene chloride has its own toxic properties, but it's used in tear gas canisters as the propellent. Its presence in tear gas lobbed in Seattle heightened the adverse health effects experienced by protestors, says Linda Galke of the Washington Coalition. "Essentially, those exposed to tear gas were being damaged more by the methylene chloride than by the gas."
Some of the symptoms listed by the National Library of Medicine for exposure to methylene chloride -- lethargy, mental confusion, headache, tingling of the limbs -- mirror those experienced by protestors in Quebec. It's not known, however, if methylene chloride was in any of the canisters used in Quebec City.
The cops say they don't know. "We don't have that kind of technical information," says RCMP spokesperson Julie Brongel. She says the police don't concern themselves with safety issues when it comes to tear gas. "We only do testing in terms of how effective the gas is on people," she says.
Armor Holdings, the parent of Federal Laboratories,the Pennsylvania-based outfit that supplied tear gas to police in Quebec, would not respond to NOW's inquiries about what was in the CS canisters in Quebec. And they wouldn't tell Brongel either. She's just put down the phone after trying to get info from them for me. They're not in the habit of releasing info on what's in their CS, she reports, "because they don't want to compromise or minimize its effectiveness."
And what of the health concerns worrying Quebec City protestors? Brongel is unapologetic. "The protestors who decided to be close to the front lines are taking a chance," she says, with no comment on the thousands gassed who were far from the fence or merely living nearby.
It may add to the unease of Quebec City protestors to learn that the company that supplied the methylene chloride-laced tear gas to the Seattle police, Defense Technology Corporation of Wyoming, recently joined forces with Federal Laboratories Inc.
In 92, Federal Laboratories, along with TransTechnology Corp., was the subject of a civil suit brought by the families of nine Palestinians killed by exposure to CS, according to a legal synopsis by the international office of the ACLU. At last report, an out-of-court settlement was being discussed.
With research assistance by Greg Konstantinidis.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And as a resident of Capitol Hill in Seattle during the WTO protests, I will give my personal account:
As protesters marched in the neighborhood in a LOCALIZED area of no more the 2 streets by 2 streets, the SPD/KCSD had gone to areas in the neighborhood (up to 2 miles away) and started gassing streets in which no protestors were present or had walked thru. Several family's with children, with NO INVOLVEMENT with ANY WTO ACTIVITIES were directly exposed by this gas in their homes and on the street.
This is breaking from the point of my post, but I will like to say:
It's funny how some people use the "Well Saddam Did It Before, And May/Will Do It Again...He Shall Pay" argument...
yet they won't and/or refuse to use the,
"Well The U.S. Government Did It Before, And May/Will Do It Again".
See what happens when you don't take a birdseye & neautral viewpoint? You make an ass of yourself.
I've showed that the Government of the U.S.A. has abused it's innocent citizens, yet know one yet has acknowledged or disproved this.
It's funny when you let your "emotions" get in the way, isn't it? Keeps you from reason and logic. Makes your mouth water for blood, keeps you hungry to justify one action...and blind yourself to another.
Sheeple, so easy to manipulate. Some just never learn.
A growing body of info in the U.S. as well as a special report of the European Parliament says CS has caused heart failure, liver damage and death from exposure in close quarters. More recent findings also link exposure to abnormal chromosome growth.
oh no! the producers of fear factor also exposed people (the contestants) to cs gas, INTENTIONALLY!.......ive always thought there was evil lurking behind nbc......and now we know they are just as bad as saddam hussein himself!!
aa
Dfl8er,
Ok. Lets just get rid of CS gas and Tear gas. What do you suggest we use?? Rubber Bullets??
Maybe if People were not Rioting in the First place we wouldnt have a problem now would we?? Maybe if Mr. Koresh wasnt shooting at Federal Agents we wouldnt have used CS gas now would we??
I know, why dont we just use Mustard Gas. At least that will give you a legitimate reason to Bitch.
CS is soooooooooo bad. Every army recruit gets gassed by it in basic training and we are all dying by the thousands. Get a clue.
Well, I guess that you have been personally gassing me by driving a car. Your CO gas has been proven to cause cancer!!! You should be shot! Lets ban cars..........
Well, I guess that you have been personally gassing me by driving a car. Your CO gas has been proven to cause cancer!!! You should be shot! Lets ban cars..........
and ive been personally gassed by my girlfriend and her hairspray......shes so sadistic...reminds me of saddam every time.
aa
I gassed my ex-girlfriend last night with a big raunchy fart. Methane is in no way a healthy gas! Maybe the EPA will fine me. Probably not. We all know there is a govt. conspiracy to keep farts legal when it is common knowledge that A) They are a fire hazard, and B) They cause nausea.
Also, ive read that Jews fart more....its a Jewish conspiracy!!!
Well, I guess that you have been personally gassing me by driving a car. Your CO gas has been proven to cause cancer!!! You should be shot! Lets ban cars..........
See? Thru your sarcasm you are learning...good. Instead of banning cars why not enhance them to become less polutant or perhaps get rid of gas all together. Start developing alternatives.
The world isn't as; "good" vs. "evil", "left" vs. "right", "black" vs. "white", "cut and drired"...as you'd like it to be.
Try looking at the world as a web...with one strand affecting the other. Should one strand (or many) be broke, reconstruct, improve, find alternative methods to make it stronger.
Don't be afraid to question...didn't you learn that from breaking from the WTBTS? The fact is, the U.S. Government ( or ANY government for that matter ) is the NOT the pure Camelot we hope it to be. Here you have nation where the voice of the people can help themselves and the world to improve humanity. Want that to be taken away? Want politicians who listen to the voices of corporations, the rich, celebrities, and the social elite only? That the common voice to be squashed? That "law" and "law enforcement" caters to a select group of people, then that of the majority?
Then look at what I have been presenting here, without extremist eyes. Recognize that if the heart of such a Nation is weakened by the compromise such as the Patriot Act, that all the Saddam Hussien's, Osama Bin Ladens, and Al-Qaedas in the world WILL PREVAIL!
Edited by - D8TA on 11 February 2003 15:0:14
