Silent Lambs/Bill Bowen..Who rejoices now?

by wasasister 87 Replies latest watchtower child-abuse

  • larc
    larc

    I made my comments regarding the Ray Franz versus Bill Bowen controversy. On the recent discussion of Bill Bowen, Silent Lambs, and the disorganization, if not the dissintigration of this movement, I have not, thus far commented. I will now. First of all any successful organization, and especially a cause or crusade must have the fire of emotion. The leader of such a cause must also have the icy cold nonemotional logic to carry out the plan. All great leaders know this. The great generals in battle can be looked at as models, the combination of emotion and logic. Emotion alone will lead to mass destruction of the troops. Thus, reason and emotion are both necessary. I think this is a point that many friends of Bill's cause have been expressing, when they queston his tactics and strategy. A wise man will listen to his advisors, even if the advice is disturbing. To do otherwise will lead to ruination.

    I now, want to comment on Hillary's statement, re: history. It is nice to think of a particular person or a particular event as the beginning of something important. The world is more complex than that. Every event has its historical anticeedents. Every significant event had events before it that allowed that event to happen. That is what Hillary is saying, so take it to heart. Every cause is built on the foundation that was set there before the significant even was even possible.

  • Gizmo
    Gizmo
    The entire situation makes me ill. This is exactly what a Witness would have predicted at the beginning, using scripture to substantiate their reasoning.

    "See what happens when people oppose Jehovah's Organization? They cannot have unity! If this cause was from Jehovah, it would not fail. See?? They fight amongst themselves! They seek prominence with men, not aid for victims."

    Spot on. Some give more ammunition to the GB and do more damage by squabbling amongst themeselves.

    Oh well maybe one day they will learn???

  • UnDisfellowshipped
    UnDisfellowshipped

    Hillary_Step said:

    I still believe that anybody, even members of the GB, are innocent until a court of law finds them guilty

    I agree.

    However, there is most certainly absolute proof beyond a shadow of a doubt that the Governing Body has protected pedophiles and allowed them to continue to molest children, sometimes even after the molester has confessed to Elders. Not only that, the children victims are Shunned while the pepophiles are going door-to-door, and the Governing Body condones and allows ALL OF THIS.

    So, the Governing Body, by protecting and harboring pedophiles, is JUST AS GUILTY as the pedophiles themselves.

    Kelsey007 said:

    As far as changing the WT- I havent seen that. Of course, most here are at the mercy of what is posted here for any info we recieve in regards to silent lamb's progress.

    Here are a few changes I have noticed:

    1: I'm pretty sure that the Elders are more careful now to make sure that they don't come out and forbid anyone from going to the Police to turn in a molester (if not, the Watchtower is really stupid).

    2: Victims can now look up on the Internet and find out what is going on with the pedophile situation (ie. they can know that it is a worldwide scandal and that the Watchtower is intentionally covering-up pedophiles).

    3: How many thousands of people who watched Dateline, Panorama, Connie Chung, and read the New York Times, and hundreds of other Articles, have been protected from ever joining the evil cult of the Watchtower?

    Am I saying that this was all because of Bill Bowen. No, Bill certainly did help to get all of those Media Features done, but it is all about the Victims.

    Mulan said:

    I read a post you made a few months ago about how you and AlanF, Farkel and Maximus (maybe others) had been carefully working on this abuse issue, for a long time, and BB came and just bulldozed through, possibly ruining years of work already done. I had no idea, and it hit me hard to read that.

    Somehow, I find this very hard to believe.

    How exactly did Bill Bowen "ruin years of work that was already done"?

    Somehow I don't see how Dateline, Panorama, Connie Chung, New York Times, etc., "ruined years of work" by others.

    IslandWoman said:

    An SL supporter who threatens to kill or rape!? My god, I have had my fill of this! Whoever wrote those things are like the rapists in the Watchtower!

    That is horrible. Anyone who threatens violence or sexual crimes should be turned in to the Authorities, I don't care who it is, they need to be turned in.

    I'm sorry to hear that this happened, especially by people who claim to be "silentlambs supporters".

  • Gizmo
    Gizmo

    Dannybear

    Laughing, because it sounded funny. I have no idea even if Greeks make cheescake?? Perhaps your point. Anyway I don't remember eating any, although 'halva' seems to ring a bell from my youthful days spent around a whole congregation full of Greeks.

    hmmmm obviously the greek Brothers couldn't of invited you too often

    Halva is a sesame based sweet, or a semolina based sweet ( 2 types of halva)

    Cheesecake is better known as TIROPITA...which is not exactly a cake but a baked filo pastry filled with Greek Cheese

    As to what HS meant by her/his comment i have no idea as i am not familiar with that c olloquialism.

  • hillary_step
    hillary_step

    Undisfellowshipped,

    However, there is most certainly absolute proof beyond a shadow of a doubt that the Governing Body has protected pedophiles and allowed them to continue to molest children, sometimes even after the molester has confessed to Elders.

    In which case they have committed an alleged crime. I hope that they get their just deserts in a court of law and not on a public discussion forum where unsubstantiated accusations are inflammatory and dangerous. For example, has Theo Jaracz been arrested for the alleged crimes that he committed over thirty years ago? Why not? As of last week he was in control and slippery as ever. You see Unddisfellowshipped, "almost certainly' does not cut it in a court of law, and I will not move in these issues beyond the Law which is a seasoned common denominator in these issues.

    1: I'm pretty sure that the Elders are more careful now to make sure that they don't come out and forbid anyone from going to the Police to turn in a molester (if not, the Watchtower is really stupid).

    2: Victims can now look up on the Internet and find out what is going on with the pedophile situation (ie. they can know that it is a worldwide scandal and that the Watchtower is intentionally covering-up pedophiles).

    3: How many thousands of people who watched Dateline, Panorama, Connie Chung, and read the New York Times, and hundreds of other Articles, have been protected from ever joining the evil cult of the Watchtower.

    You make a powerful point and I concur with it. However, my statement was that official WTS policy as of today's date is unchanged. How others view this policy and the part that SL plays in future changes was not part of the point that I made in answer ti Jim's first post.

    Somehow, I find this very hard to believe. How exactly did Bill Bowen "ruin years of work that was already done"?

    This scenario relates to a public statement made on the Silentlambs march in New York and noted above. It had severe repurcussions for myself personally and did indeed result in barriers falling on a case which likely may have been the first evidential case bought to court of the GB complicity that you mentioned in your first point. I cannot force you to believe it, though some who read this Board do know the truth of this statement. Incidentally it was not many 'years' of work but close to two.

    However, these things happen. I bear no ill will to anybody involved. As I stated once on this Board, I was angry for a couple of days, but it has nothing to do with why I feel that SL needs to establish itself along more conventional charitable lines to avoid the infighting and public gaffs that have accompanied its cause in recent times.

    Best regards - HS

  • Gizmo
    Gizmo

    Undisfellowshiped,

    1: I'm pretty sure that the Elders are more careful now to make sure that they don't come out and forbid anyone from going to the Police to turn in a molester (if not, the Watchtower is really stupid).

    Nope when confronted with it, they just deny it, they categorically deny that they never told the victim or victims family not to go to the authorities. They haven't learnt anything dude.....don't forget they are never wrong the light only gets brighter. See below

    http://sunday.ninemsn.com.au/sunday/cover_stories/transcript_1149.asp - full transcript of report

    REPORTER: A secret deliberation, a private reproof, no recourse whatsoever to the proper authorities. Did you go to the police?

    MAURICE HADLEY: ..which is a reasonable - no, I didn't.

    REPORTER: Why not?

    MAURICE HADLEY: Well, it was something for the family to decide and do.

    NATALIE WEBB: Maurice said to me that the authorities shouldn't be notified because it would be a bad witness and that they would be able to handle the situation.

    REPORTER: So Maurice Hadley told you quite specifically...

    NATALIE WEBB: Mmm-hmm, yes.

    REPORTER: ..not to go to the police?

    NATALIE WEBB: Yes.

    MAURICE HADLEY: Yeah, and I say that that's not true.

    REPORTER: You swear by that?

    MAURICE HADLEY: I swear by that categorically.

    REPORTER: You never said that to her?

    MAURICE HADLEY: Never said that to her.

  • DannyBear
    DannyBear

    elderrepents,

    I loved 'halva' and do remember puff pastries. Garlic being the operative memory trigger, both in the kitchen and sitting next to the Greek brother's in the hall.

    Of course my interests in cuisine at the time, centered more around 'Tommy's' hamburgers (anyone from L.A knows why)and the heavenly chili they were doused in. Of course Burrito King was another 'hole in the wall' LA joint that offered 'machaca burritos' to die for.

    Danny

  • UnDisfellowshipped
    UnDisfellowshipped

    HS,

    Thanks for your reply.

    You said:

    In which case they have committed an alleged crime. I hope that they get their just deserts in a court of law and not on a public discussion forum where unsubstantiated accusations are inflammatory and dangerous.

    And I am sure they will face a Court of Law when the Barbara Anderson Trial begins.

    For example, has Theo Jaracz been arrested for the alleged crimes that he committed over thirty years ago? Why not?

    When I posted above, I was talking about the GB covering up pedophiles -- I wasn't talking about the accusations that some of the GB are pedophiles.

    However, your questions about Jaracz are very good and I also have the same questions.

    You see Unddisfellowshipped, "almost certainly' does not cut it in a court of law, and I will not move in these issues beyond the Law which is a seasoned common denominator in these issues.

    The absolute proof I am speaking of, is the Elders-Only Letters, the Watchtower Publication Articles, The statements on the Watchtower's Official Website, and J.R. Brown's statements, which basically outline how the Elders have been instructed by Bethel to NOT turn pedophiles in to the Authorities, and also to Shun the Abuse Survivors if they choose to turn the molester in to the Authorities.

    Edited by - UnDisfellowshipped on 22 December 2002 0:33:46

  • UnDisfellowshipped
    UnDisfellowshipped

    elderrepents,

    You are correct, the Watchtower is extremely evil (and in my opinion, stupid) to continue to tell abuse survivors not to go to the Police.

  • OUTLAW
    OUTLAW

    Hey hillary_step,bud what I have read here disturbs me..Keep your ass below the radar..We will meet up again soon..My best to you and the Mrs ...OUTLAW

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