by wasasister 87 Replies latest watchtower child-abuse
HS,
You wrote:
PS - I might add as an example, that when I criticised SL advisors for some ill planned decisions a few months ago I received a barrage of email from SL supporters. Among the many vitriolic statements made, one threatened to kill me and the other to cause my wife sexual injury. This is what I mean.
You have an open e-mail address, are you certain those threatening e-mails came from verifiable SL supporters?
This is a serious accusation.
IW
Danny - Thank you for your concern. The mail phased me about as much as a Greek cheesecake. The whole situation just proves that extremists are extreme, though I do admit that I did not pass the warnings on to my wife, who would have been deeply upset had she opened the mail.
IW - I know that one of the notes came from a subscriber to this Board, but frankly I just deleted the rest so they may have come from outside this community. I described the situation as a warning of what might happen in emotionally charged situations when logical thought processes seem to go on vacation for a while, though frankly I was not concerned. When you have been threatened by sudden snow-saturated windstorms on Alpine peaks, email from half-wits does not quite make the grade....lol
Best regards - HS
Edited by - hillary_step on 21 December 2002 21:31:54
HS,
***The mail phased me about as much as a Greek cheesecake***
Laughing, because it sounded funny. I have no idea even if Greeks make cheescake?? Perhaps your point. Anyway I don't remember eating any, although 'halva' seems to ring a bell from my youthful days spent around a whole congregation full of Greeks.
Glad you could shine it all on.........btw it is good to have you back.
Danny
HS,
I am speechless. There are no words to describe my deep horror that such a thing could have happened.
An SL supporter who threatens to kill or rape!? My god, I have had my fill of this! Whoever wrote those things are like the rapists in the Watchtower!
They have become the very thing they despise.
IW
Among the many vitriolic statements made, one threatened to kill me and the other to cause my wife sexual injury
HS that is appalling and I am sorry to hear that you received such threats. Disgusted! I guess in every respectable movement you find psychos like that, pity you didnt keep the emails as the whole SL movement may have been vindicated by you being able to demonstrate that it was just a couple of nuts who support SL that are psychotic and not the Majority has could have been interpreted.
In reference to your earlier post I would respectively respond by adding a few thoughts as follows. In pointing out any difference of opinion I would like to first state that I am not a follower of Bill Bowen but believe he deserves credit when it is due him.
Yes Jim, "Lets get this into perspective"
1. Bill Bowen has done more to change the WTBS than anyone else in 100 odd years.
Has the Society changed its policy in the way it handles child-abuse cases? Have they instructed the elders to report these crimes to the police rather than take the fatal step of telephoning the local Branch first?
Perhaps this change is in the process, one simple visit to London HQ by Bill Bowen caused the Society to call for an urgent meeting of all Dos and significant members of the Org. This followed BBs visit and not the showing of Panorama! Consequently the combination of Panorama & BBs efforts has caused the new policy to emerge in UK that requires a committee similar to that of the HLC! Crap policy with the same results of the previous policy but none the less seldom does the society change its policies due to an outside influence...BB has packed a tremendous punch to the WT and its local branches. And who knows, by having a commitee like HLC at least one elder may have seen all this in the news and decide to go ahead and call the police.
2. The Society have had unleashed upon them a floodwave they cannot - and will not handle.
The WTS, like most other religions, including the Mormons, and The Hare Krishna movement are undergoing the very same problems as we speak. As yet the WTS has not sustained a defeat in court regarding the child-abuse issue. It will at some stage, and this will be due to the diligence of lawyers who will win by presentation of facts.
Again Mormons, Hares etc are facing these issues because someone dared to take the lead and expose them and put up with all the hassle that would come along with taking that lead. In the WT case it was BB who finally stood up and put his head on the lineit may now appear to be severed but it was his head that got the WT challenged internationally not the lawyers. The lawyers can now cash in on the publicity and documentation that BB has brought into the public eye they too will benefit from BB just as many of us have, if anyone has provided the lawyers with more facts, bb has, credit where its due.
3. The WTBS would love to see us destroy ourselves - we are the only ones who can do that. The WTS has been fighting this issue for many, many years. Its greatest enemy is not BB or XJW's but the free flow of knowledge, agreed hastened by individuals fired by a sense of justice like BB and Raymond Franz, Carl Jonsson and others. However, inevitable defeat would always have been its destiny due to social evolution as much as the agitation of XJW's. There exists a fuse running throughout the WTS own theology that will spell its own death or reincarnation.
Agreed.
4. More has gone into Bills work than the rest of you know, filtering out gossip and untruth.
You seem under the impression that Bill is being attacked personally. Some of his methods have proved to collapse under close scrutiny, and it is these that have been rightly criticised. The WTS does not need to defeat SL, if SL becomes self-defeating.
Agreed.
5. How many of us on this board would have had the guts to do what he has done. Many have been doing very much behind the scenes regarding this issue for years before BB was a voice, it is they that paved the way. Very little seems to be spoken about this whole facet of activity. Perhaps a book one day will tell the tale.
There are only up to 130,000 JWs in the UK yet over 4 million viewers watched panorama, and countless more joined in the radio discussions and watched the follow up programs and viewed the internet streams, how many is that? I dont know, but it is very clear that all these millions have been warned and prevention from joining WT is better than a cure! Many peo ple worked behind the scenes to pave the way and they are not mentioned probably because they merely whispered, no one know who they are, thats HOW LOUD they were! I'll bet they become louder now BB has jumped in and turned the whispers into something more meaningful. Without BBs screaming voice Panorama would not have taken place. The groundwork may have been done in the exjw world and whispers and words may have been spoken but lets not over look whom has been the most effective, hardest working, most criticised man this year ( I know he deserved a certain amount of it but not all). He deserves credit for his outstanding ability to take a whisper and shout it to the world.
IW:
An SL supporter who threatens to kill or rape!?
It would have helped SLs to know who this was, see the WTS tries to hide its criminals and look at the effect it has upon the innocent. Now SLs have a crazy nut supporting them and again they are left in the dark and the nut is protected....whispers are futile.
Brummie
Edited by - Brummie on 21 December 2002 22:28:9
Brummie,
I hate to be pednatic about these things but sematics are important in laying foundations for these arguments. Jim suggested 'Bill Bowen has done more to change the WTBS than anyone else in 100 odd years'. My argument is that as yet, he has not changed the WTS. As they have done throughout the century when attacked by outsiders that have galvanised Legal to protect their own interests. Change is not on the desk for discussion by the GB, self-protection is. Change will take place and BB must certainly be admired for helping this to happen, but as of today's date, no policy change has taken place.
You note:
Again Mormons, Hares etc are facing these issues because someone dared to take the lead and expose them and put up with all the hassle that would come along with taking that lead. In the WT case it was BB who finally stood up and put his head on the lineit may now appear to be severed but it was his head that got the WT challenged internationally not the lawyers.
No Brummie, the WTS have been challenged over this issue many times before and won all their cases. To date at least, they have won all their cases. Many in the past have helped these cases reach the courts of Law, they have paved the way. The WTS will lose eventually due as much to the assault of a modern world on an antiquated theological fundamentalism as by any attacks from individual XJW's. BB has played a major role in bringing the worlds attention to this issue. It must be remembered until a few years ago, the Internet was not here to ignite these issues. They were fought slowly ponderously and sometimes dangerously in unseen corners of the earth.
Without BBs screaming voice Panorama would not have taken place.
I understand what you are saying Brummie, but in this statement you seem to ignore all heroism and frustrating work of people like Barbara and Joe Anderson, AlanF, Kent Steinhaug and others whose attention has been directed to this issue for some years before Bill was a 'voice'. Without the advice and support of these people there would probably not have been a Panorama or Dateline.
I have little left to say on this issue except that it is a pleasure debating with posters on this thread who can disagree and yet remain friends.
Best regards - HS
Edited by - hillary_step on 21 December 2002 22:49:46
....people like Barbara and Joe Anderson, AlanF, Kent Steinhaug and others whose attention has been directed to this issue for some years before Bill was a 'voice'. Without the advice and support of these people there would probably not have been a Panorama or Dateline.
HS, I concur. Because most of these people stayed largely in the background (except for their role in the very obscure ex-JW community), they have sometimes been forgotten.
Barbara Anderson's contribution was vital to this issue going public. Her "insider" status was the most profound since Ray Franz took up writing after being DF'd. In the early stages of the movement to expose the child abuse debacle, several people played their parts: AlanF has inside contacts and had emassed a huge printed library of WT literature; Barbara Anderson had the research material she accumulated when working on the Awake! article; Bill Bowen had the press attention as an elder-whistle-blower.
As time went on, Bowen became the front man - the face in front of the camera. He was also a sympathetic and willing listener to the silentlambs victims.
I've never taken the stand that Bowen should be discredited. Like others, I've been uncomfortable with some of his actions, but I held my voice. As long as the cause did not suffer, I could look the other way when certain things he did or said bothered me.
What lead me to post at this time is the realization that the current situation in the Silentlambs organization is exactly what a die-hard Witness would have predicted from the beginning. I'm glad Hawkaw is confident that the Leagle Eagles are taking it from here. But it still pisses me off to give the WT the satisfaction of seeing infighting among the ranks.
Hillary Step- THANK YOU!! Your thoughts on this echo my own and are very well put- especially this statement:
Very nice to see you posting!!As I said yeserday I see no honor in a person in the guise of protecting abused children, moving then to abuse adults and feeling that this can be excused.
XW
I may catch hell for saying this but the attitude of:
Like others, I've been uncomfortable with some of his actions, but I held my voice. As long as the cause did not suffer, I could look the other way when certain things he did or said bothered me.
has many times been vilified here when applied to some of the responsible members of the Watchtower. That's the problem imo with people in general, we have a reluctance to speak out when the issues or people involved are ones we cherish. There are those in Bethel who have felt exactly as the statement above and for that reason also remained quiet.
I beginning to see that what they do is very human and not to be faulted as much as it has been.
IW
Change is not on the desk for discussion by the GB, self-protection is
Very true, thankfully that has also been brought to the public eye during BBs vast media coverage. A lot of people dont have access to the internet so I guess the strongest weapon is the media TV & Radio newspapers etc. One thing all those who have been abused have brought out is that Self protection for the GB is far more important than the plight of the abused.
Barbara & Joe are SL supporters and I agree credit should be given to them for the work they have done, however I thought you had implied that nothing is being said about these people yet I only got to know Barbara through the mention BB gave her regulary. AlanF & Kent Steinhaug have been mentioned to me by BB and Kents web page was also highlighted to me by BB. Perhaps he cant bring those up in the media because the media have no concern for them, that certainly doesnt reflect on BBs concern for them.
Change will take place and BB must certainly be admired for helping this to happen, ...
BB has played a major role in bringing the worlds attention to this issue. ...
That was what I was trying to bring out in my post HS. as much as I disagree with him sometimes, he is still to be admired and given credit, in the current mess all this can be forgotten and the guy could totally be beheaded as having done nothing good.
Without the advice and support of these people there would probably not have been a Panorama or Dateline
If there had been no one in the org for these people to give advice and support to, Panorama wouldnt have happend. Therefore it works both ways so your comment is appreciated.I worked along with Panorama HS (as did many other exjws in UK), if BB wasnt the raging voice he is I doubt whether Panorama would have gone ahead, the fact that BB was still in the org when the original research was being done just added weight to the story. No exjw could have given Panorama the push they needed to get that show on the road, it had to be someone who had a position within the Org. Anyway regardless, thanks fo your valuble posts.
Brummie
