Great Tribulations Starts December 20, 2002

by proplog2 112 Replies latest jw friends

  • pettygrudger
    pettygrudger
    2. JW's have completed their work in the richest countries of the world - evidenced by stagnant membership.

    I believe the truth would be "witnessed" throughout the entire world - and then the end would come?

    1. Putin (King of the North) & Bush (King of the South) made a declaration of friendship in May of this year.

    Didn't Reagan & Gorbachev do the same thing?

    4. Bush is about to assert USA hegemony by engaging in an ill-advised war. It is also a war that will result in a drop in oil prices that is likely to continue for the next 10 years. A drop in oil prices will completely derail the recovery of the Russian economy which is tied to exporting expensive oil.

    I believe war generally tends for oil prices to rise - correct? How will our war with Iraq equate to a "drop" in oil prices (unless of course we take control of Iraq - which I don't see happening).

    6. The Watchtower has moved most of its critical management functions out of the hypercenter of a Manhattan nuclear blast.

    Bethel has not moved, and is definitely right at ground zero should a nuclear warhead be directed into Manhatten.
  • proplog2
    proplog2

    Pettygrudger:

    You said:

    1.<I believe the truth would be "witnessed" throughout the entire world - and then the end would come?

    I am talking about the Great Tribulation which leads up to the end. By the time the end comes the whole world will have received a witness. The Watchtower cannot prove that people won't be able to join up after the start of the Great Tribulation. Daniel 11:34 indicates many will "join them by means of smoothness".

    2. Didn't Reagan & Gorbachev do the same thing?

    See post dealing with this issue

    http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.aspx?id=28519&site=3

    4. I believe war generally tends for oil prices to rise - correct? How will our war with Iraq equate to a "drop" in oil prices (unless of course we take control of Iraq - which I don't see happening).

    See previous answer to same question by Pleasuredome

    6. Bethel has not moved, and is definitely right at ground zero should a nuclear warhead be directed into Manhatten.

    My Claim was that the Watchtower organization has their critical management at Patterson which could escape an attack on Manhattan. But yes Bethel would be gone.

    Edited by - proplog2 on 29 November 2002 19:20:13

    Edited by - proplog2 on 29 November 2002 19:23:12

  • pettygrudger
    pettygrudger

    Putin (King of the North) & Bush (King of the South) made a declaration of friendship in May of this year.

    In light of recent "current" events, wouldn't it appear that the King of the North is actually the United States, considering how much they've been pissing off the UN lately? Even though they got their "resolutions" they are still under fire from the world community for many of their foreign policies as late. Doesn't the UN turn on the King of the South? What leads you to believe that either of these are reasonable choices for either of the Kings, especially with the sleeping giant country of China waking up. There is also the entire Islam community at large that hadn't been given any thought in any Christian doctrines. Where do they fit in?

    Right now Iraq's huge reserves (2nd only to Saudi Arabia) are off-line. If and when Hussein is toppled the USA will ramp up Iraq's production to rebuild Iraq's infrastructure and help pay off the 100 billion dollar expense of the war.

    I have never known the United States make a country pay off any expenses of war - I believe we have always paid for the "clean-up" afterwards. So what leads you to believe the above is true?

    I am talking about the Great Tribulation which leads up to the end. By the time the end comes the whole world will have received a witness. The Watchtower cannot prove that people won't be able to join up after the start of the Great Tribulation. Daniel 11:34 indicates many will "join them by means of smoothness
    How would you propose this would take place, with everyone running around killing their next door neighbors, scrounging insects & mice to eat and the what not - wasn't it made clear than as soon as the GT started, the preaching work was OVER - doors closed end of story. What makes you think that persons would have an opportunity to preach?
  • Stan Conroy
    Stan Conroy

    Why would you factor JW's in your theory? What have they to do with anything of significance?

    Stan

  • proplog2
    proplog2

    Stan:

    JW's are the carriers of the most important factor needed by mankind to get to the next level. They have abandoned Nationalism. They carry this beyond simply refusal to fight in war. They also refuse to worhip the symbols of nationalism (flags, anthems) and they do not get involved in this worlds politics. Instead they rely on courts where matters can be settled without blood shed. They are a "civil society". If they must disobey rulers they do this in a "civil" manner.

    No they are not "perfect". But they are committed to these principles.

  • Quotes
    Quotes

    During a moment of clarity that lasted long enough to use his/her computer, proplog2 noted:

    JW's are the carriers of the most important factor needed by mankind to get to the next level.

    According to who? This statement is biased, demeaning to the sincere efforts of thousands of other groups, and illogical, all at the same time. Lets see, when did I last hear this? OH YEAH, from the HEAVEN'S GATE victims!

    They have abandoned Nationalism. They carry this beyond simply refusal to fight in war. They also refuse to worhip the symbols of nationalism (flags, anthems) and they do not get involved in this worlds politics.

    Stated more correctly, they have replaced respect for nation, as well as respect to family and respect for science, with worship to the Watchtower Society. Furthermore, I have yet to meet anyone who "worships" either flags or anthems. Only someone with an extremely confused sense of what constitutes worship would say something this ridiculous. BTW, the ancients Israelites gathered together using FLAGS to differentiate the 12 tribes. But I know you don't want to be confused by the facts.

    As for world politics; in many first-world countries (esp USA) many people simply can't be bothered to vote on election day and don't take advantage of their right to vote. I guess that means that USA is becoming "more pure" then?

    Instead they rely on courts where matters can be settled without blood shed. They are a "civil society". If they must disobey rulers they do this in a "civil" manner.

    Only because the "laws of the land" do not allow them to KILL former members. Please read Nov 15, 1952 Watchtower Questions from Readers to see that the thing preventing them from KILLING former members is the limitation of the laws of the worldly nations in which they live. It is obvious from reading this article that if WT Theocracy were the rule of law, you would be killed -- by them, not by some angy god -- for leaving their group. Here we go beyond merely psychotic, and venture into the dangerous world of psychopathic.

    Also, I fail to see how defacing and/or stealing libary books that you disagree with, or letting a child die by refusing a standard medical medical procedure, can be considered "civil".

    No they are not "perfect". But they are committed to these principles.

    Of course they are not perfect. Nobody is! This last statement could apply to just about any group, including al-Qaeda. It is meaningless and proves nothing.

    Proplog, can I assume you have not bothered with Christmas shopping this year? No need, if the GT is starting five days before! Also, can I assume you put your money where you mouth is and withdrawn all your savings from all banks & financial institutions and converted it to gold and silver (which, unlike paper money, will be worth something during the GT)? Have you stocked up on food? I am talking enough to last months? If you really and truly believe in what you are saying, you will have done all these things, and more, to prepare.

  • proplog2
    proplog2

    Quotes:

    I am not going to try to convince you that Nationalism is the main cause of war. (Which is not a unique opinion.)

    However I resent your out-of-context propaganda you quote from the 1952 Watchtower.

    Please click on your link and get back to us when you learn to read ALL of a quote and not just the part that is highlighted in yellow. Did you miss the part that they don't kill apostates because Christians don't do those things?

    I will agree with you though that much of Franzian doctrine is disgusting. Part of what happens in fallible human organzations.

  • Celia
    Celia

    ....So, Proplog2, what is going to happen on December 20th ? Nuclear bombs being dropped all over the world ? What ? We need to know to get ready.

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    Oh goody. This rarely happens. Someone confidently makes a claim and a date, and all I have to do to refute them is wait until December 20. Not only that, the date is soon enough that I should be able to retain it in my short-term memory. proplog2, do you promise to take back your carefully worked out calculations, if Armageddon does not start on December 20? You won't pick a single event, like the opening of the Lord of the Rings for instance, as "proof" that you were right, will you? What specific events do you expect to happen on December 20?

    By my carefully considered calculations, Armageddon will not happen on December 20.

    One day the Pharisees asked Jesus, "When will the Kingdom of God come?" Jesus replied, "The Kingdom of God isn't ushered in with visible signs. You wont be able to say, "Here it is!" or "Its over there! For the Kingdom of God is among you." (Luke 17:21 NLT)
    What do I get if I am right? Peace of mind?
  • Stan Conroy
    Stan Conroy

    Sorry for not getting back to this topic sooner, but this board is not a priority.

    Prolog2 stated: "JW's are the carriers of the most important factor needed by mankind to get to the next level. "

    This is only your opinion, since there are many factors which could bring mankind to the "next level". I can say that with confidence since the idea of "the next level" can be what ever my imagination wants it to be at this particular time.

    Prolog2 stated: "They have abandoned Nationalism"

    No they haven't. They are as nationalistic as the next guy, except their government is an imaginary one.

    Prolog2 stated: "They carry this beyond simply refusal to fight in war. They also refuse to worhip the symbols of nationalism (flags, anthems) and they do not get involved in this worlds politics."

    They have replaced the symbolism of the worlds nations with their own WatchTower symbol. It's on all their halls. It's in their literature. What's the difference? True, they do not get involved in politics, but they also contribute nothing to the community. They are leeches who, take from society and return nothing. For example, like you stated, they will not fight in wars, but they are first in line to benefit from the freedoms that are achieved by results of war. Do you think JW's would be knocking on doors if Germany had won WW2?

    Prolog2 stated: "They are a "civil society"." Explain this to those who have been shunned by their families because of the treatment at the hands of these people.

    No, I stand by my original question: How does thus insignificant cult matter in anything?

    Stan

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