Post by Ray Franz (page 3)

kenpodragon

I wish Bill would write an apology here. We need it. The other post he made, was not an apology.

Mulan

I think many would agree with that statement

Dragon

Simon

Thank you Amazing and thank you Ray - the balanced thinking does shine through. It's very good of Ray to spend his time writing that for us.

Dungbeetle (Gsark) - you are flogging a dead horse and your claims have no merit. The only person who would persue any claims against Ray would be an idiot and I doubt any reputable lawyer would recommend it as a course of action. You may diagree with him but be very careful you do not overstep the mark and make unwarranted accusations.

You really seem to have decided things and no amonut of reasoning or facts will sway your decision - that is a very dangerous way to be IMHO.

Simon

Balanced discussion is welcome but character assassination with unfounded accusations is not.

ThiChi

""Dungbeetle (Gsark) - you are flogging a dead horse and your claims have no merit. The only person who would persue any claims against Ray would be an idiot and I doubt any reputable lawyer would recommend it as a course of action. You may diagree with him but be very careful you do not overstep the mark and make unwarranted accusations.""

I agree 100%.

SpannerintheWorks

Ray and Amazing,

Thank you for this post.

Ray, I don't know whether to thank you or despise you ! You steered ME away from the WTBS ( Crisis Of Conscience ), but ENCOURAGED my wife and her family into it ( in the 70's - 80's ) !

Does this scenario ever cross your mind ?

BTW, you would be a great reference voice on this forum. I'm sure everybody would agree with me !

Ray, you have been THE most influential person who has changed people's perspective on the Watchtower Society.

Please consider joining us !

Spanner

Englishman

From my inexperienced, never-abused viewpoint, this was the paragraph that I took on board:

In Jesus day people were in awe of religious leaders from the Pharisee division of Judaism. The blind trust and subservience this produced was harmful to the people. Jesus did not seek to achieve their relief by endeavoring to create problems for the Pharisee movement with the Roman officials, so that the government would take punitive action toward them.

This is the dilemma that many of us face perhaps?

Are we 100% committed to the stopping of child abuse, or are we seeking revenge on the WTBTS and hoping that this will be the catalyst to bring them down?

Englishman.

kelsey007

Englishman thank you for bringing that point out. I totally agree.

deddaisy

I have great admiration for the steps that both Mr. Bowen and Mr. Franz took in their lives in order to live by convictions that the WTS failed to possess. What each gave up by taking those steps says a great deal about each as a person. But I said "steps," I personally know neither man and cannot say I would stand behind either in every circumstance. I could not honestly say that I would stand behind my husband no matter what decisions he made. Following another unconditionally is dangerous. Its most likely why so many are in situations in which independent thinking is prohibited.

I totally agree with questioning without blindly following, the only problem is sometimes, not most of the time, but sometimes it gets to the point of doing no good except to give fuel to the WTS. Wouldn't it be nice if the WTS would conduct all their discussions and disagreements, including details that could hurt them, via a public forum?

Mulan

Englishman................very good point. I do believe that they all hate the child abuse that is going on. I also believe they are hoping it will bring the WTS down. I know that is the goal of many of them.

Bill continues to say that he wants ONLY to get them to change their policy. I believe him. I do think that is his purpose, but others who have joined, him see it as a way to collapse the whole thing.

kelsey007

Deddaisy- such an open forum for discussion takes away control. From where I sit both sides love control. Its got to be my way or no way at all- the WT condemns the beliefs of others and condemns those who do not align themselves with thier movement- the same is true of silent lambs- at least seemingly so from what I have seen. It seems to have developed into a us against them mentality instead of a what can we do to aid abuse victims mentality. That to me is the failing of the movement and why I refuse to align myself with an organization that so freely and often attacks others. When I was df'd I accused the eders of being on a witch hunt- I get the same feeling of the silent lambs. Advertising in hopes of finding new accusations and jumping on sensational allegations without thought or deep research.

Post by Ray Franz

Share this