Comments from Ray Franz re Bill Bowen

by Amazing 148 Replies latest jw friends

  • Amazing
    Amazing

    I talked at length with Ray Franz this afternoon regarding the following comments by Bill Bowen:

    Ray Franz supports the WT policy on child abuse. He is the author of the two eye witness rule as well as the slander issue that prevents anyone from warning another of child abuse in the congregation. It is interesting that WT is willing to fight to the last man standing for a policy that in large part was founded by their biggest apostate. ... Ray Franz is no friend to silentlambs, he makes no effort to support child abuse survivors, he has more than once told many people that he sees no problem with WT policy on abuse. In my opinion he is covering up for something he does not wish to reveal. ... He wrote a book that was dynamic in what it reveals, but his silence regarding abuse causes me to question his ability to stand for what is morally and ethically right. ... http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.aspx?id=38277&site=3

    I asked Ray if he "supports" Watchtower policy on child abuse, to which Ray Franz flatly stated he did not support their policy.

    I asked Ray Franz if he is the "Author" of the policy that prevents anyone from warning another of child abuse, to which Ray stated flatly that this is a lie. He had nothing to do with such policies.

    I asked Ray if he spoke to Bill Bowen as Bill stated in a follow-up thread where Bill says:

    silentlambs is an organization that supports abuse survivors and educates the public as to how children are being hurt by wt policy. I ask no one to support me, I ask all to support abuse survivors. Ray Franz by his actions and by his words to me personally and several others who have talked with me about converstions with Ray on this topic, does not support silent lambs/abuse survivors who have been harmed by WT policy.

    ... to which Ray Franz stated that he made no such statement to Bill Bowen, and that Bill knows that is not the case. He invites Bill Bowen to call him and clear matters up.

    I asked Ray what he thought might have led to such comments, to which he stated that the only thing he recalls saying was that the problem with pedophiles and incest in the Watchtower organization is comparable to other religions, and that current policy is designed to maintain the image that the Watchtower is a spiritual paradise, which it is not. He also stated that while he was serving on the Governing Body he was surprised to learn of the files on incest, but that no one ever approached him about the issue at any time and that he never dealt with it or the organization's policy.

    I asked Ray for permission to quote him on his responses, to which he readily agreed. The issue was raised in public, and therefore a public comment is necessary. He again stated that he invites Bill Bowen to call him and discuss matters.

    IMPORTANT PS: I had a phone discussion tonight regarding this issue, and the fact that Ray Franz was assigned the chapter called "Safeguarding the Cleaness of the Congregation" in the "Organization for Kingdom Preaching and Disciple Making" where the "Two Witness" rule is outlined. (Crisis of Conscience, Pg. 81, Footnote 2) ... the question put to me is whether his responsibility for this chapter means that he also had in mind the more specific Watchtower policy applying this rule strictly in cases of Pedophilia. I did not ask this of Ray because I only stated Bills comments as they were written, where the general policy was not at issue. Bill made a specific policy application that Ray Franz categorically denies participating in or authoring. Since the caller stated that Bill had in mind this global chapter, though he did not cite it or mention it, then I will call Ray again tomorrow and ask more about what he had in mind, as to whether he intended for the global policy to be specifically applied in cases of pedophilia as it has been in BOE letters. Until the question was put to me, all I had to go on was the exact wording in Bill's comments.

    UPDATE: For additional comments from Ray Franz see: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.aspx?id=38403&site=3&page=1

    Edited by - Amazing on 16 October 2002 8:3:41

  • pomegranate
    pomegranate

    Ray should publish that himself...don't you think?

  • Amazing
    Amazing

    Hi Pom: As stated, I asked permission to quote Ray, and he agreed.

  • Reborn2002
    Reborn2002

    Interesting...

    Now it appears one or the other is a flat-out liar.

    This thread will surely EXPLODE.

  • hamptonite21
    hamptonite21

    Where is ray?

  • WildHorses
    WildHorses

    Thank you Amazing, for cleaning this up.

    I do hope that Ray is feeling well.

  • IslandWoman
    IslandWoman

    Pom,

    Are you calling Amazing's post possibly unreliable? If so, I would sincerely like to know why.

    IW

  • plmkrzy
    plmkrzy

    This should be enough to back up what Amazing said, well for some anyway. I accept it.

    CofC page 20 top of the page
    The remaining fifteen years of full-time service were quite different, as they were spent at the international headquarters in Brooklyn, New York. My reason for describing in some detail the earlier years up to 1965 is that their content seems to be more of the fabric (though greatly inferior in quality) of the experiences the apostle focuses on in setting forth the evidence of the genuineness of his service to God and Christ, saying:

    etc...

    This would put Ray Franz "Not in Broklyn" in 1964 at the time that doctrine was written, Made up, etc... if it was printed in 1964. He would have been in The Dominican Republic.
    Also read page 19 of CofC wherre it gives the time-line as being well into 1965 before they returned to the US.

    The page's may be different depending on what edition of CofC you may have.

    plum

    edited, forgot the qoutation

    Edited by - plmkrzy on 9 October 2002 18:50:22

  • Mulan
    Mulan

    Thanks for calling him, Amazing. I knew someone would clear this up. I doubt Bill is lying, but probably misunderstood.

  • Searchin50
    Searchin50

    Thats Mr.Franz, Way to many people making rash statements here!!!!!!!!

    appears to me the only war is on this board, by way to many people

    lets at least give the benefit of doubt here.

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