In there no good in the WTBTS??? or ourselves??

by jst2laws 102 Replies latest jw friends

  • trevor
    trevor

    Hi Norm.

    I agree with your comments on what the Witnesses see as the 'Final Solution.'
    It is not enough to just passively say that they cannot help what God does.
    To qualify for this reward they must approve of the slaughter, believing it to be
    "righteous and just." They must love this vengeful God with their "whole heart,
    mind and strength." Their literature describes at length how having witnessed
    the mass slaughter they will stand and applaud.

    Here is a Quote that shows the approval that Witnesses must have for the slaughter by
    their blood thirsty god:

    "Thus, Jehovah of Armies by means of his field marshal Jesus Christ,
    will gain undying glory for himself surpassing anything that was described
    in "The book of the Wars of Jehovah" and in the Hebrew scriptures of the
    Holy Bible. How beautiful a name will Jehovah make for himself by his
    awe-inspiring victory in "the war of the great day of God Almighty!"
    "Jubilantly all lovers of that name will then laud it forever, singing forth his praises!"
    " Forward, then, into battle action O Jehovah of armies,
    with your royal son at your side!" (Worldwide Peace and Security Under the Prince
    of PeacePages 159, 160) (1986)

    .

    Edited by - trevor on 25 March 2001 6:20:20

  • Pathofthorns
    Pathofthorns

    J2L,

    I think the most difficult thing to come to grips with is that no matter how much good exists in the religion, what is bad and conscientiously unacceptable has to be justified somehow as well. At some point, if you are an honest person, you will realize this is impossible.

    How you can teach people things you know are wrong, how you can sit in a judicial committee and pass judgement on another person, how you can tell "good news" that one day little children will lay dead in the streets, is all beyond me.

    You come across as a very sincere person, and like Farkel I believe you are making a last effort to convince YOURSELF of things you have now have such doubt in. I did this as well as no one leaves behind what is a "way of life" without being sure.

    Your screen name shows where your heart and where most who left on grounds of principle lies. That is the simplicity of Christianity that religion complicates. It's the simple truth that conflicts when one has to decide to love God over "organization".

    Path

  • ozziepost
    ozziepost

    normie67: you stated: "But today the Kingdom is Established in 1914!!!"

    With your positive statement I suppose you have not the slightest doubt that date being the end of the Gentile Times, have you? Not the teeniest doubt?

    Then you will be able to explain this little puzzling thought I have.

    How is ist possible that the Gentile Times finished AFTER the commencemnet of World War 1?

    (WW1 started around July/August whereas the Gentile Times are supposed to have been completed in October.

    I understood the scenario to be that Christ took up Kingdom power, waged war against Satan expelling him from heacven to the vicinity of the earth, where he started his destructive acts of which WW! would be the first. Am I wrong? Please tell me where I can find the corrected understanding if it exists.

    Thanks.

    Ozzie (of the enquirers class)

  • Pathofthorns
    Pathofthorns

    hey Ozzie,

    this is where the explaination gets a bit stretched. "Apparently" Satan started WWI as sort of a distraction to throw the nations into confusion so they wouldn't recognize Jesus being enthroned as king.

    The truth is, the whole appointment in 1914 as King and the appointments in 1918 are just ridiculous as are the arguments that surround them. The evidence is just as invisible as the supposed appoinments and yet the religion is founded upon it.

    Path

  • MDS
    MDS

    To, "jst2laws" & "Normie67:

    Hello.

    In reading over your posts, I know you feel strongly about the Preaching work done by JWs worldwide...the preaching of the "good news." And how this work is uniquely done by JWs worldwide. But here is something to think about, concerning that work.

    JWs have been taught for many years, the "preaching work" done by themselves, sponsored by the WTS, has been a "TOUCHSTONE" in which Jesus Christ, as "judge" could determine if those preached to, were "sheep" or "goats." Thereby, the preaching work done by JWs worldwide becomes a means to "measure" the world of mankind, as to their "response" to the message or "good news."

    Perhaps, at one time, you may have sincerely believed this too.

    However, recently changes from the Watch Tower Society, particularly since 1995, have made it clear that this same said message, that has been "preached" now by JWs for many years, DOES NOT accomplish any "dividing" or "separating" at all, in the eyes of God and Jesus. Meaning, the WTS has "misinformed" the brotherhood, all these years, about their terribly important preaching assignment. The true meaning of it.

    The following is a comment on the change, and its effect upon the "brotherhood."

    Post from "James" on Bible Research.

    ----------snip--------

    "...One of the beliefs that shocked me was the ‘new understanding’ in 1995 of Jesus’ parable of the Sheep and the Goats (Matthew 25:31-46. I still remember as for years, since 1958, we studied with people the book „From Paradise lost to Paradise regained" We imagined ourselves engaged in a worldwide „separating work" based on the understanding of the WT. We were told that „after Jesus became King in heaven 1914, HE would put apart sheep from goats. And the King rests his decision on how the people treat his spiritual ‘brothers’ and how they accept the good news of the Kingdom that his spiritual brothers preach". (Page 200) Now, since 1995, we are told that this separating work has not begun as yet! The WT October 1995, page 22, says:" In other words the parable points to the FUTURE, when the Son of Man will come in his glory. He will sit down to judge people then living. His judgement will be based on what they have manifested themselves to be. At that time ‘the distinction between a righteous one and a wicked one will have been clearly established"...

    We have been preaching all the years along to the people, that they had NOW to make a decision, because we are living in the last days of the ‘Time of the End’, accepting God’s only organization on earth and get baptized, otherwise they would belong to the goats and be destructed at Harmaggedon! And now we hear the WT has ‘adjusted’ his understanding of this parable, as well as the generation of 1914. I ask 'what will be the next 'adjustement'???..."

    -------snip----------

    Do you think we can say now, that the "preaching message" that JWs have carried for many years now, has any merit at all? Based upon the "change," how can we be sure, the WTS has given us, the correct message to preach, in the first place?

    Clearly, the preaching message of Jesus had merit...people were "judged" by his message, were they not? Whether they responded or not. His message divided. Why not the message taught by JWs?

    Any thoughts?

    MDS

  • unanswered
    unanswered

    jst2laws-i haven't read every post on this thread, mostly because quite a few others are doing a great job discussing the arguments. i wantedto say, though, my opinion of you has grown as i see your willingness to discuss many subjects that are certainly taboo in a congregational setting. i also appreciate that you express human compassion at every turn. this quality was definitely lacking on the comitties i have dealt with.

    so now, when i pose a question to you, please understand that i am asking a question that i've tried to ask my parents many times(they are both active jws-my father is veteran elder) with out ever getting an answer that wasn't based at least somewhat on blind faith. you seem to be trying to be very realistic about your religion, yet you feel it is the right place for you to be. if this is so, what has to happen to, or within the org. before you say, "enough, they have strayed to far"?

    this is an honest question, not an attack-i ask because it seems like whatever comes up(child molestation, doctrinal flip-flops, corrupt authority figures, etc), even good-hearted witnesses always seem to be able to come up with one excuse or another for staying in the org. so, what is the point where the org. has gone to far? or is there even such a point? i hope to hear from you on this, it sort of covers a lot of issues for me. i'm not headed back to the WT for any conceivable reason, but your answer may help me to understand my family more.thanks-nate

  • bluesapphire
    bluesapphire

    You said, "My faith is based on the Bible."

    So then that means your faith is based on the fact that various men wrote the various books therein. Not only that, but then more men from a religion other than JW came and decided which of the more than 200 books qualify to be in the canon. For example, why is Revelation included and not the real First Letter of Paul to the Corinthians? -- yes there were really three, not two. Who decided that Acts of the Apostles qualified but not the Acts of Peter -- or the numerous other "Acts" for that matter? And which bible do you use? Do you use the one the early Christians used - the Septuagint? Or do you use some other translation? Because they all vary. If you use some other translation, do you know what the original languages meant or how the people understood each letter/writing at the time it was written? Do you stick to that same interpretation? If you believe in the authority of the men who decided on the Canon, do you also believe their authority when they said that the Deuterocanonicals (also known as the "apocrypha") are also inspired and they INCLUDED those books as part of the original canon? If not, why not? Where does their authority end? Why does it end? Where is the logic in what you believe?

  • bluesapphire
    bluesapphire

    Farkel, on the old H20 you used to say that something really "big" was going to happen "soon" that would shake the socks off the WTS. Was the big thing the thing with the pedophilia or is it what you're still working on? Just curious.

  • Farkel
    Farkel

    : Was the big thing the thing with the pedophilia or is it what you're still working on? Just curious.

    You'll know what it is when it hits and so will everyone else. Keep alert and please be patient.

    Farkel

  • normie67
    normie67

    Farkel
    Whats your story and why do you think something big is about to hit?????
    Do youhave inside "Contacts"???
    just curious
    normie

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