Don't buy into Ray Franz's stumbling block.

by Bleep 93 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Farkel
    Farkel

    bleep,

    : The Bible did foretell the coming of false prophets.

    Yes, it did. It also defined false prophecy and especially apostasy using a very specific example: Philetus and Hymenaeus. What did they teach? Well, they taught the resurrection had already occurred and that was 2,000 years ago.

    Now what pet Cult do you know that has taught the resurrection has already occurred for the anointed remnant since it was founded by Chuckie Russell? First it was taught that it happened in 1878 and then it was in 1918.

    If the resurrection occurred in 1918 then the 1878 date was apostasy. If the resurrection occurred in 1878 then the 1918 date is apostasy. If the resurrection as they've taught has NOT occurred at all, then it is apostasy for ever teaching that it did.

    What part about "apostasy" and false prophets do you not understand, you ignorant jackass?

    Farkel

    Edited by - Farkel on 27 July 2002 1:35:50

  • Cath
    Cath

    Has anybody heard the song with the words - AND IF YOU JUST IGNORE IT, IT IS BOUND TO GO AWAY.

  • NeonMadman
    NeonMadman
    Trying to criticize a good Organization is hard to do.

    Which explains why it is so easy to tear apart the Watchtower Society and its teachings.

  • NeonMadman
    NeonMadman
    I did correct my quote, it is from some reader in Kansas or West Virgina where there are many gay preasts.

    Probably a lot of pedophile elders there, too.

  • Dia
    Dia

    Bleep,

    Take 1 minute and try to imagine that God and the WTS are two different things.

  • QUEENIE
    QUEENIE

    OH MY GOSH I ALREADY DID BUY IT FROM FREEMINDS---but then I also wear a crucifix as well AND THE NEXT BOOK I BUY INTO IS GOING TO BE ONE ON WITCH CRAFT and turn all active JWs into toad frogs and do not think it can not be done cuz it can...My grandmother on my mothers side was a spirit medium a witch ((((BOOOOOOOOO)))) weeee it is so much fun riding on my broom stick--- -- people I do not like are in for it now big time !! LINDA LOU KERSEY

  • NewWay
    NewWay

    Who Is Raymond Franz?

    The best way to get to 'know' who Raymond Franz is and his association with Jehovah's Witnesses is to read his book "Crisis of Conscience" (ISBN: 0-914675-04-4, published by Commentary Press - this relates to the 3rd edition). However, reproduced below is a collection of quotations from that book which will give a brief overview. Quotes From "Crisis Of Conscience" (3rd Edition) by Raymond Franz

    "From babyhood up into my sixteenth year, my life was spent in association with Jehovah's Witnesses." - Page 8, para 2.

    "In 1939 I was baptized and in June, 1940, on graduating from high school I immediately entered full-time service in witnessing activity." - Page 11, para. 2.

    "Some months later I was in Indianapolis, Indiana, for a superior court hearing involving the Connersvilled events. My uncle, *Fred Franz, a member of the Watch Tower headquarters staff since 1920 and a close associate of *Judge Rutherford, was also there from Brooklyn as sort of an expert witness on the Society's behalf." - Page 12, para. 3 - *Fred Franz later became the fourth president of the Watchtower Society; *Judge Rutherford was the then (second) president of the Watchtower Society.

    "In 1942, a 'special pioneer' assignment in Wellston, Ohio, brought other experiences." - Page 15, para. 3.

    "In 1944, an invitation came to attend a missionary school, the Watchtower Bible School of Gilead, for a five-months course. Upon graduation and while awaiting a missionary assignment, I spent a year and a half in traveling work, visiting congregations in a 'Circuit' that took in the state of Arizona and a large section of California. When visiting congregations in the San Diego, California, area I spent five nights at 'Beth Sarim' (meaning 'House of Princes'). This was a large home built by the Society and said to be 'held in trust' for the faithful men of old, from Abel onward, to be used by them upon their resurrection. Judge Rutherford, who had had some lung problems, spent the winters there during his life." - Page 16, para. 2.

    "Thereafter I was assigned to the island of Puerto Rico (viewed as still within the U.S.A.). Before leaving, in 1946, Nathan Knorr, now president of the Society (Rutherford having died in early 1942), talked to a group of us, all young men being sent out to do supervisory work in different countries as 'Branch Overseers.' Among other things he strongly stressed that if we wished to remain in our missionary assignments we should avoid anything that might lead to courtship and marriage. The policy was: Loss of singleness means loss of assignment." - Page 16, para. 3.

    "Within a year or so I was assigned to do travelling work, visiting congregations in the island and in the neighboring Virgin Islands (lying to the east of Puerto Rico)." - Page 17, para. 3.

    "In 1957 all the American missionaries of the Witnesses were expelled from the Dominican Republic in the wake of a wave of violent persecution, many local Witnesses being brutally beaten and imprisoned...The Society asked me to go in and check on the conditions of the native Dominican Witnesses." - Page 18, para. 2 & 3.

    "Later the Society changed its policy on marriage and, thirteen years after arriving in Puerto Rico and now approaching 37 years of age, I married. Cynthia, my wife, joined me in traveling work." - Page 18, para. 5.

    "We continued in traveling work until 1961 and then were transferred to the neighbouring Dominican Republic...During our nearly five years there, we saw the fall of four separate governments and in April of 1965 experienced a war that centered around the capital where we were located" - Page 19, para. 3 & 4.

    "The remaining fifteen years of full-time service were quite different, as they were spent at the international headquarters in Brooklyn, New York." - Page 20, para. 1.

    "What I saw, heard and experienced during the next fifteen years had a great impact on me. Whether the reaction of the reader will coincide with mine, I have no way of knowing, but one thing is certain and that is that no one could understand what brought me to a crisis situation without knowing these developments. The proverb is apt: 'When anyone is replying to a matter before he hears it, that is foolishness on his part and a humiliation'." - Page 20, para. 4.

    "A few months after our arrival and after I had done some work in writing, President Knorr showed me into an office containing a table piled high with stacks of typed papers and asked me to undertake the development of a Bible dictionary...Others shared intermittently for varying periods but the *five persons mentioned carried the project through until the 1,696-page reference work, called Aid to Bible Understanding, was completed five years later." - Page 21, para. 1 - *The 'five persons' were Lyman Swingle, Edward Dunlap, Reinhard Lengtat, John Wischuk, and of course the author (Raymond Franz).

    "It seemed an awesome responsibility for me when I became one of eleven members of the worldwide Governing Body in 1971 (the number later grew to as many as eighteen in 1977 and as of the year 2000 now stands at thirteen)." - Page 42, para. 3.

    "May 22, 1980. Governing Body. Dear Brothers: By means of this letter I submit my resignation as a member of the Governing Body. I will also be terminating my Bethel service. My prayers will continue to be offered on your behalf as well as for Jehovah God's servants earthwide. Your brother, R V Franz." - Reproduction of letter, Page 322. In summary then, this is a brief resume of the main activities of Raymond Franz whilst associated with the Watchtower Society:
    * 1922 - Born into Jehovah's Witness family
    * 1939 - Baptized.
    * 1940 - Entered full-time service in witnessing activity.
    * 1942 - Became a 'special pioneer'.
    * 1944-1965 - Various assignments in missionary and travelling work (i.e. Circuit Overseer).
    * 1965-1970 - Major writing assignment involving the Bible dictionary Aid to Bible Understanding.
    * 1971-1980 - Serves as a member of the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses.
    * 1980 - Resigns as a Governing Body member.
  • NewWay
    NewWay

    The Watchtower Publications Index (1930-1985) has the following entry: Raymond V Franz
    Gilead graduation: w76 671-2
    service tours: km 5/77 1
    France: yb80 159; w79 1/1 11
    termination of service as member of the Governing Body
    and Bethel family: km 8/80 2

    Key: w = watchtower; km = kingdom ministry; yb = year book

  • Bleep
    Bleep

    Dia,

    I have taken time to learn a lot of the other translations of the Holy Bible. And I have taken too much information from the Watchtower Society to back up my opinion. No one said I was perfect. Neither did I.

  • Europe
    Europe

    To Bleep:

    so true
    I was baptized a Jehovah's Witness in 1972 (three years before Armageddon came) and served as an Elder for a good number of years. All I can say is put Franz book to the test for yourself. I did, and it was right on the money. After much praying on the matter, last week me and my wife... Read more

    Cant this have been a typing error? Perhaps it has to be 1922????? He didnt say which Armageddon, did he? If Ray Franz is over 80 years old.........And as your wonderful WTBTS has already fooled you at least 3 times...........you never know for sure which so called Armageddon people are talking about!!!!!

    Besides, why holding a grudge against someone who earns money by writing a book and not against an organization who owns millions of dollars in real estate by fooling and brainwashing their members!!!!! Sour grapes Bleep???

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