Proof - of what?

by Doltologist 91 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  telemetry11

  
  

  Doltologist,
  

  I read the suggested article. Great stuff for later.

  Clearly there are no assumed mechanisms in my argument.

  Unchanging facts of protein “creation”:

  Proteins are chains of amino acids.

  Some 500 amino acids are known but only 20 amino acids are used in life’s proteins.

  The implicit ordering of the 20 amino acids endows the protein chain with remarkable physical and chemical properties and ultimately the function of the protein.

  So, given the odds of 1 in 20 for the implicit ordering of each link, a small protein chain of 100 amino acid links has 1 chance in 20^100 (1 chance in 10^130) of emerging functional on its own.

  _________
  

  Of course one functional protein is not alive. Modern biochemistry has shown that any “cooperative self-replicating system” (including any hypothetical protobiont) is (or would have been) operated by teams of proteins. The simplest known self-reproducing organism (H39 strain of Mycoplasma) has 625 proteins averaging 400 amino acids each. However, some contend that, theoretically, one might get by with 124 such proteins. The chances of spontaneously forming 124 such proteins, are 1 in 10^79,360.

  Doltologist, most textbooks focus on the chemistry of life—which molecules do what inside the cell. Obviously, life is a chemical phenomenon, but it's distinctiveness lies not in the chemistry as such but something even more profound.
• 

  cofty

  So, given the odds of 1 in 20 for the implicit ordering of each link, a small protein chain of 100 amino acid links has 1 chance in 20^100 (1 chance in 10^130) of emerging functional on its own.

  That isn't the case.

  There are an astonishing number of combinations of amino acids that will result in a protein molecule with the same function. In the case of Cytochrome C the specific number is 10^93.

  Any one of those combinations would function just fine. Looking a little bit deeper it is also true that there is redundancy in the DNA sequences that code for amino acids.

  When the Amino acid sequences and DNA sequences are examined for Cytochrome C for different species we see a tree of life that corresponds exactly to the one that we already knew from other evidence. Chimps have an animo acid sequence identical to humans and and a DNA sequence with just a few letters difference. The sequences are less similar for humans and horses and even more dissimilar for yeast. And yet Cytochrome C can be transplanted form humans to yeast and work perfectly.

  Because you didn't really understand your so-called objection to evolution you actually highlighted one the the most powerful arguments for common ancestry.
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  Doltologist

  Telemetry11

  Clearly there are no assumed mechanisms in my argument.
  

  Clearly there are assumed mechanism(s) in your argument. You quote a probability. That probability is based on the creation of a protein and given that the protein is assembled in some way, shape or form, a mechanism must be involved, even if it is randomness.

  Anyone can Google and cut and paste without understanding. Obviously you are one such person.
  

  If your stats are correct, then life cannot have evolved.

  If life didn't evolve, then, the sky wizard did it.

  It is obvious that the sky wizard doesn't exist.

  Therefore, the stats quoted by you are incorrect and a mechanism exists where the stas are totally different and allow for the evolution of life within the known time frames.
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  cofty

  The stats telemetry cites are gibberish straight out of the old Creation book.

  The actual stats amount to some of the strongest evidence for the common ancestry of all living things.

  If I had to choose just one fact in support of unguided evolution it might be this one.
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  Doltologist

  Cofty

  The stats telemetry cites are gibberish straight out of the old Creation book.

  Yeh, quite so, but it's nice to see sheeple like telemetry11 make twats of themselves, especially on a public forum.
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  cantleave

  This video explains the probability issue very well

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFTm-TAaFGk
  
• 

  Doltologist

  Cantleave

  Excellent.

  I do hope that telemetry11 watches it before he posts his next pile of shyte. He/she/it is getting a tad tedious and looking more of a twat with each post.
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  Witness My Fury

  As to why the JWs or any other "believers" have a hard time reacting positively to evidence contrary to their beliefs then it's covered under cognitive dissonance theory.
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  Doltologist

  WMF

  telemetry11 must be so fill of Cognitive Dissonance, and other stuff, that their mind must be doing cartwheels to cope. Either that or telemitry11 is a complete twat.
• 

  telemetry11

  LIFE is a chemical phenomenon, but it's distinctiveness lies not in the chemistry as such but something even more profound —

  The “simplest" self-sufficient replicating cell is a complex information-processing system.

  The ‘cheerful’ argument goes, “If enough monkeys pecked away at typewriters long enough, they could eventually write the complete works of Shakespeare.” However the tested reality is—“If a trillion monkeys were to type 10 randomly chosen characters a second it would take, on the average, more than a trillion times as long as the universe has been in existence just to produce the sentence: ‘To be or not to be, that is the question.’" —William Bennett; professor of physics at Yale University, 1979

  Something more wonderful than the complete works of Shakespeare is here— irreducibly complex, computationally intractable, infinitely more precise. “The information content of a 'simple' cell has been estimated at around 10^12 bits of data, comparable to about a hundred million pages of Encyclopedia Britannica.”—Encyclopedia Britannica 1974, p. 894

  Effectively processing that 10^12 bits of semantic content, inanimate molecular machines communicate, cooperate, and interact in concerted purpose with other cooperative, interactive, communicating, inanimate molecular machines. By means of this complex information-processing system, the “simplest" self-sufficient replicating cell produces hundreds of different proteins and other molecules, “on cue” and under variable conditions. Synthesis, degradation, energy generation, replication, maintenance of cell, architecture, mobility, regulation, and communication —all of these functions take place in virtually every cell, and each function itself requires the interaction of numerous inanimate parts including membrane, chromosomes, ribosomes, nucleolus, nucleus, mitochondrion.

  Consider just one part of one part of all the cooperative, interactive, communicating parts—DNA. It contains the information processed by a self-sufficient replicating cell “The efficiency of DNA as a carrier of data is so great that if all the information held within all the libraries of the of the world (about 10^18 bits of data) were programmed onto DNA, that information would fit on about 1 percent of the head of a pin!"—Siemens Review 56(6):1-7, 1989