Active JW's and JW Lurkers- Especially JW Defenders and Believers: A Few Questions For You

by OnTheWayOut 73 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • OnTheWayOut
    OnTheWayOut

    Page 2 replies

    Vidiot, so true. So true.

    Apognophos, I don't argue with the idea that people were pulled in to the cult. The idea of "brainwashing" is just semantics. Most have learned that it doesn't take actual brainwashing to pull people in. But J-DUB has to give that same pass to committeechairman. It's okay to state your opinion to help wake up a member, just as this thread is an attempt to do that. But we do have to remember that even the fringe JW's that come here are coerced or pulled in or stuck in their situation. WELL...... at least they think they are stuck.

    Giordano, thanks for your calm thoughts and awesome publisher card story.

    Sparrowdown, yes. That would be nice to stay on topic.

    millie210, that is a fine point about this one person honestly answering the questions. We should really try not to blast the one person.

    gda, I hope you like me too. thanks for your encouraging words.

  • OnTheWayOut
    OnTheWayOut

    Flamegrilled, this forum has off-and-on had JW defenders posting despite the knowledge that it is frowned upon. But we still have many weak ones, lurkers. The OP may be ridiculous, but it's not just for nothing.

    Spectre, you make great points. Psychology on cults has learned that often, people get more entrenched as their doomsdays don't arrive.

  • Tenacious
    Tenacious

    Constructive criticism is better than direct attacks on someone who more than likely is fighting their own inner feelings to abandon a well entrenched fear and subsequent mental healing.

    Just my thoughts. Good looking out Vidiot.

  • Giordano
    Giordano

    On the way out the Committee Chairman needs to be heard, embraced and supported not the JW beliefs....... but his humanity. He will make his move when it is appropriate for him to do so. If not he will be that rare humanist that a Christen was supposed to be.

  • committeechairman
    committeechairman

    I only get to post here once in a while because of my schedule but I do want to address some of the comments. I did say I was interested in your comments and you certainly did deliver and I found ALL of the comments very interesting.

    GTTM: Your question about why I'm here is a good one. I find it refreshing to hear unfettered comments about what's going on with Jehovah's Witnesses, both from those who are still active and those who are inactive or even opposed. Believe it or not, I do understand very well why people would reject and even attack Jehovah's Witnesses. I try to answer questions here as an active elder so as to provide answers that might not otherwise be available either due to the extreme secrecy that is practiced within our organization or just because I want to be helpful. I know that not everyone is going to be ok with someone who is here on this board but doesn't reject the religion outright, which brings me to....

    J-DUB: I asked for your opinion and you delivered. I don't think it is fair for me to ask for your opinion, whatever it is, then get upset becuase you gave it or because of how you gave it. I'm able to read through your tone and approach to what I think you really mean. I do believe I understand your point of view in that you believe that once something seems to be wrong then you should just leave it and I can respect that point of view. It may help (or not) to understand why I stay in (for the moment). I know that you believe I'm f-ing up peoples lives by serving as an elder, but I continue to hold on to this because I can help people behind the scenes by having this authority. I'm not the regular run-of-the-mill elder, though. I am selective about what direction I follow. I don't advertise my views. I understand that someday this might get me removed or even disfellowshipped. I have participated in many judicial committees, but since I've gained a "wider worldview" to euphemize waking up, I have been able to guide judicial committees (since I'm usually the chairman of committees I participate in - hence the user name) not to disfellowship, because I haven't seen a case yet since I have this new viewpoint where it is justified. Even though I'd love to engineer a walk-away (I will at the right time), for now I can try to help those I can who cannot leave - especially those who know what's really going on but that for some reason cannot bring themselves to go away. I know you'll probably disagree...that's ok.

    Giordano - I really loved your comment and especially your description of me as a humanist. I do believe that religion is a very large misunderstanding of what books like the Bible were written to accomplish, and although I do believe in God (somewhat contrary to being a humanist entirely) I'm pretty sure that if and when we ever get direct communication from him he is basically going to do a head-slap and say "Guys, this is totally NOT what I meant in all of these books I caused to be written." To Jehovah's Witnesses, I'm afraid what he will say is "My son told you that the true religion would be known by the LOVE shown, not the reports gathered or how extremely organized or strict it was....it would just be known by how much love you for every human being and your brothers and sisters in faith in particular". I feel like the mission is clear in the beginning for most religions, then it is lost through its transformation to an institution.

    CC

  • joe134cd
    joe134cd

    Committee chairman = Your a good man. Comparing you to what I went through I just wonder how you manage to do it. I was just a publisher so how much more turmoil it must be for you been an elder been on JC, disfellowshipping people for the very things that you have questions about. Can't you sort of see a conflict of interest. I just can't get over how drastically my life has changed over 2 years. When I was first discovering TTATT I honestly thought I could play in both worlds. I can go to the meetings, F'S etc and still know that there are some things drastically wrong. 18 months ago I walked out of the KH for the last time. The mountain just got to big for me. I feel frustrated that I can't openly say anything to indoctrinated family members for fear of making my situation worse than what it is. Anyway I wish you the best and BTW I'm not having a go at you either.

  • Vidiot
    Vidiot

    commiteechairman - "...I've gained a "wider worldview" to euphemize waking up...I'd love to engineer a walk-away (I will at the right time)...

    Thought so.

    commiteechairman - "...for now I can try to help those I can who cannot leave - especially those who know what's really going on but that for some reason cannot bring themselves to go away."

    Nothing wrong with that (if you can handle it); Fifth-Column-types can often do some good.

    Promise us this, though; if/when you find yourself on a child-abuse-related JC, please report it to the police.

  • J-DUBBED
    J-DUBBED

    I'm sure I'm not the only one who's tired of your Tourette's outbursts.

    Well Apog.. Do your self a favor and don't read everything that's posted on a public forum. If you don't like it, you don't have to read it.

    I'd almost think you mostly "Defend" the J-Dub Cult Club.

    I don't really give a fuck if you don't like what I've got to say about the J-Dubs and their Club.

    I have had some good comments from some good people that may help the situation. Thanks to them.

  • J-DUBBED
    J-DUBBED

    Don't....before you do anything. read Steve Hassan, contact him. the cult mode will come out, things will be worse. listen to this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTtMg0I9-jQ&list=PL1C92492B60E711FC it's 16 parts....from 9 to 16 is an interview with steve hassan. great info....your family is brainwashed. don't jump....this will take time. shalom. remember: it's a freaking cult. GTTM

    Oh, and Apog.. , you wanted proof that brainwashing exists...............

  • OnTheWayOut
    OnTheWayOut

    Excellent thoughts, Tenacious.

    Giordano, thanks. He will make his move when he is ready. Meanwhile, it's good to hear his point-of-view.

    committeechairman, thanks for reading through the tone.

    joe134cd, like you, I could not stay in both worlds- the fake truth and the world outside where the truth about the truth is known. I get what you are saying to committeechairman.

    Vidiot makes an excellent request about the child abuse committee.

    J-DUBBED, thanks for the video link. People need to research that and realize that it is real. I only say the words are "semantics" because people think that unless you are strapped to a chair or table and they use torture or sleep deprevation or electric shock, that there really isn't any brainwashing. I will have a listen as I can to the links.

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