Officer Wilson not indicted in killing of Michael Brown

by Simon 551 Replies latest social current

• 

  Marvin Shilmer

  Post 91 of 92 was in response to your post, which was partially quoted.

  Again, what does 'dressed like a gang member' mean? Your assertion of "drawn hoodie" describes half of the people walking around University of Michigan's campus in the fall, for instance. Is that the Wolverine gang?

  In other words, I'm using your own language to point out the inherent visual bias that exists. Yes, there are instances where a black person in a hood would be watched more closely than a white person in the same exact hood in the store, and that's because the viewer gets two distinct impressions from them; the black or latino person being viewed as a "gangster." What is even VIEWED as "gang" wear is colored by race and demographics in itself.

  No. You're not using my language when it comes to hoodies. You've introduced a strawman about hoodies. Look it up.

  On top of that, when I responded asking for the proof you claim in support of YOUR ASSERTION in post 91 of 92 what do I get? Proof? No. I get questions. Asking questions after making your assertion is just a tad bit backwards, don't you think? If you had questions of what I said the time to inquire was BEFORE making your assertion. Right?

  What you wrote is YOUR assertion. Not mine. Hence your burden of proof. Look it up.

  As for what I wrote in my posting 3293 of 3298, it's my opinion. Disgree with it if you want. Thats fine by me. But to assert as you do in your posting 91 of 92 draws legitimate request for the proof you claim in relation to my statement you quoted. Either you can offer proof or you can't. Which is it going to be?

  So other than your opinion, I ask again: If, and that's a BIG IF, you can provide evidence suggesting my premise is faulity then please provide it. I'd like to examine it for whatever it says.

  Can you? Will you?
• 

  Marvin Shilmer

  Saying "slavery happened to everyone at one point in history" denies the demographic-social effect that having slavery and segregation affect a VISUALLY DISTINCT people, so close in history, has.

  Glad near-history didn't get in the way of Irish, Italian and Japanese Americans who were, in each case, treated like dirt outside their own communities.

  Here's another fact of American history that bears pointing out: Hundreds of thousands of Americans suffered and died in one of the world's bloodiest wars in order to end slavery as it existed at the time. And, I'm not talking about rebels who repudiated the US government and supported the mid-19th century rebellion. The patriots who suffered and died to end slavery were supported by untold millions of additional patriots whose tax dollars and real goods were fully put to the cause.

  And today what do we find being talked about as an excuse? Slavery. Guess what? Patriotic Americans died to give blacks a better opportunity in life. Make something of this gift that people of other nations did not for the most part bother to do for its populace. If the black community wants relief from crime and all it does to reduce its culture then start by DOING SOMETHING ABOUT IT inside your own community. Do not tolerate poor behavior. Report criminals. PUBLICALLY announce that is what is going to be done and then DO IT. If enough blacks do this then crime and all that comes with it will be significantly reduced within that community. Othewise little will change because non-black communities are working on their own problems and other communities' problems (including the black community) will be treated secondarily.
• 

  Simon

  I see two sides of this generation thing - yes, some families have wealth to hand down and they are priveleged / get a head start. If you don't then it doesn't matter if it was 1 or 100 generations - you got nothing and start from the same place that most other people did.

  So, I appreciate that as a group, there are fewer black people who are likely to have inherited wealth. But as individuals, there are lots of people who got the same big fat nothing regardless of their color.

  It's what you then do with your life that matters.

  And what do you do to change things? You can only change the future, we cannot change the past.
• 

  Ruby456

  anddoncallmeShirley

  by structures I mean social structures. I'd like to know which psychologist told that story cos it sounds like something a motivational speaker would say
• 

  Simon

  The problem with your premise is that it's been proven that black people and white people wearing the same clothes or doing the same actions are viewed and reacted to differently. The black teenager is viewed as a "thug" by the same people that view the white person as "normal."

  If white people went round with their jeans round their knees people would think they were some sexual deviant.

  For somewhat comedic representations of this, look at the video setups that have been done that show a black male, a white male, and a woman cutting a chain on a bike or fiddling with a car - and see how people IMMEDIATELY call the police or confront the black male, ignore the white male or ask him if he needs help, and go over and help the woman "steal" the bike or car.

  You have to look at what the preconceived steryotypes are based on. Rightly or wrongly, people view blacks as more likely to be criminal. Unfortunately the crime statistics back those views up, however unfair that may be to the individual concerned. There is also the not inconsiderable factor that people are more 'afraid' of people who are different to them. Does the reporting differ if it's white-white, white-black, black-white or black-black and then within predominently white or black neighbourhoods?

  If something looks unusual or out of the ordinary then it raises suspicion. It doesn't mean the same situation played out somewhere else by the same actors wouldn't be interpreted differently.

  It also applies to many situations that doesn't just involve skin color. How willing people are to step in if it looks like someone has put something in a white girls drink for instance depends on how nicely or trashy she is dressed - same woman (again, from "what would you do"). Results can vary wildly even when it's the exact same people involved.

  So it's not all about race. It's not all about color. It's a combination of all the things that make up overall appearance and behaviour based on their experiences and presumptions.

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u716oysCtyI
• 

  AndDontCallMeShirley

  Ruby456:by structures I mean social structures. I'd like to know which psychologist told that story cos it sounds like something a motivational speaker would say

  Ruby, you are obtuse. The whole point of this story is social structures are irrelevant as are the actual events that occur in a person's life. The determininigfactor are the choices they make. A person can make choices that help them rise above so-called limitations or let it sink them. I'm not going to entertain your empty queries and carry water for you. Google it.

  BTW- its "because" not "cos". Yet another reason why I am not wasting any more time with you.
• 

  Pacopoolio

  Marvin:
  
  You defined "gang wear" as a hoodie drawn across the face. That's not a strawman - that's the subject of the assertion in itself.
  
  Are you backpeddling out of that statement or do you still define gang wear as guy in a hoodie? I need to know those specifics before I attack it directly.
  
  Before getting into specific studies, you may want to read a combination of these for perspectives.opinions of why black people in "sports" dress are often viewed as "thugs" in a snap judgment, as opposed to those of other races (basically, normally due to media presentation):
  
  http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=gF6-YAWoYAYC&pg=PR27&dq=darwin%27s+athletes+gangster+rapper,+and+the+criminal&hl=en&ei=3Rt7TIHfLY3KOOWIgbkG&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCsQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false
  
  http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=a_xNaX8QqMIC&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false
  
  ...and keep in mind that black people are incarcirated far more and longer for the same crimes, which may also add to perception:
  http://www.sentencingproject.org/doc/publications/rd_sentencing_review.pdf
  http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/table-43
  
  Then we can note how black children under 10 are less likely to be viewed as children and less innocent as compared to white children: https://www.apa.org/pubs/journals/releases/psp-a0035663.pdf
  How black people are seen as different than human, relating words like "magical" to them as opposed to "citizen": https://static.squarespace.com/static/51e3f4ede4b053e5f0062efd/t/5474ac44e4b097793d2a00a0/1416932420769/a-superhumanization-bias.pdf
  And that black teens are 21% more of a risk to be shot and killed by policemen
  
  The, with that knowledge in the background, we can get into the studies that show that people think that black people are more likely to be on drugs or commit crime than other races ( Siegelman and Tuch 1996 ), or that a majority of whites view black people disproportionately as aggressive (Hurwitz & Peffley, 1998), combined with studies to show disproportionate news representation of black males being led away in handcuffs (often in sports gear).

  And, then, finally, we can get into media representation of black people disproportionately as sports players or criminals (corelation)(Tucker, 2007), and get into Association test results, if you'd like.
• 

  Marvin Shilmer

  If white people went round with their jeans round their knees people would think they were some sexual deviant.

  I observe white and black people dressing like that. It's a fad. It's sloppy and self-disrespecting. At least that's my view.

  When I see folks dressed like that I don't think "sexual deviant". I think "If that poor fool lives into adulthood they'll burn every picture of themselves dressed like that!"
• 

  sparky1

  "Mentioning people's success in situations where you have to be 1/1,000,000s in athletic talent or lucked out to be one of the three black actors that can get leading uni-race roles as an example of opportunities for all is a giant fallacy, as you must know." - Pacopoolio

  Which of the THREE black actors are you talking about? :

  1. Morgan Freeman
  2. Sidney Poitier
  3. Samuel L. Jackson
  4. Laurence Fishburne
  5. James Earl Jones
  6. Charles S. Dutton
  7. Denzel Washington
  8. Harry Belafonte
  9. Wesley Snipes
  10. Danny Glover
  11. Carl Weathers
  12. Cuba Gooding Jr.
  13. Mario Van Peebles
  14. Will Smith
  15. Ving Rhames
  16. Chris Rock
  17. Larenz Tate
  18. Louis Gossett Jr.
  19. Taye Diggs
  20. Kennan Ivory Wayans
  21. Eddie Murphy
  22. Billy Dee Williams
  23. David Alan Grier
  24. Blair Underwood
  25. Ernie Hudson
  26. Marlon Wayans
  27. Chris Tucker
  28. David Chapelle

  And the list of HARD WORKING and accomplished black actors could go on and on and on.......

  Any person of any color, race, religion,creed or sexual preference can make something of themselves in this life in this country. Not everyone will be a success but everyone has a chance to try and be a success.
• 

  AndDontCallMeShirley

  Pac: You're normally quite logical on many things here, but you seem to be ignoring huge swaths of history and sociology for a group as a whole in order to accuse them of 'whining,' and I can't even figure out why.

  I'm not the one ignoring anything.

  "I can't even figure out why". There you have it !

  Until the 1970s/1980s, black people as a whole had a problem

  It's 2014, Pac. In case you haven't heard, the USA has a Black President, Black military Generals, and a Black billionaire golfer*. Live in the now and quit trying to prop up whatever argument you're making by digressing to decades-old history while simultaneously insulting my intelligence.

  [edit] * in addition to a whole list of multi-millionaire Black actors sparky1 just listed. Or do people who've actually accomplished something in life despite any claimed 'racial walls' not count?