by Simon 551 Replies latest social current
Stressing just hard work is not the answer - misrepresented. I said hard work and responsibility, and had education in mind but forgot to type this out.
One more time, do you agree that during the time it takes for this great societal change to happen, responsibility, hard work and education must be stressed for disadvantaged black people (and disadvantaged people of any other colour) as a way for self-improvement?
breakfast of champions - your last post is a good summary of the way this debate is panning out.
I can't help but remember a scene from The Simpsons. Homer and Marge are having problems with their sex life - Marge wants Homer to make more of an effort in the bedroom. Homer reals off a list of societal problems in the US and finishes with '... and as soon as all these problems are sorted, we'll have sex', thinking that he's given Marge an acceptable answer.
loveunihateexams
In my post above adding responsibility would not have made a difference if the stress on hard work and responsibilty is a rhetorical ploy and as it is a rhetorical ploy in politics it must be questioned although you may not be using it in that way.
the reason I am saying this is that research indicates that when people get into a rut through ecomomic problems, alcoholic dependency, stuck on a council estate, only a few highly motivated individuals actually develop a sense of responsibility, make hard work a priority and decide to try further education to get themselves out of the situation. and this is not being racist to say so either towards black people or white people or mixed race people(replying to Shirley here as he raised this issue).
But even so a highly motived individual can be stymied by their circustances if those circunstances are overly consuming. for instance if he or she has to care for siblings. An example is an individual who works at a local gym. He is hightly motivated, asian and caring for his younger siblings because his parents have died. He is thus trapped in a very low paid job until his siblings grow up and can be independent. Most people would give up the job and take benefits while they are waiting for their situation to change as they would have just as much money coming in.
edit: to cap it all his teenage brother got beaten up and is now in hospital. It was a racist attack as his attackers were taunting him that he was a terrorist and that he ought to go home. I wouldn't mention this if it was an isolated incident. no newspapers wants to carry this story although the brother of the boy had tried very hard to get them to print it. The attackers were caught on cctv and the police are waiting for the boy to heal enough to identify them so this may a reason why the story hasn't been covered in the press yet.
The protests were across the country on Black Friday. Army Veteran Ebonie Tyse said 'I served my country, I feel like that's not what I served my country for. I served my country for justice for everyone'.
Malcolm London of the Black Youth Project 100- 'We are not indicting a man. We are indicting a system'.
'There's something happening here/What it is ain't exatly clear/There's a man with a gun over there/A tellin me, I got to beware' For What Its Worth, Stephen Stills
In my post above adding responsibility would not have made a difference - but it would have made a helluva difference to MB, he would have avoided death.
Still to be answered: do you agree that during the time it takes for this great societal change to happen, responsibility, hard work and education must be stressed for disadvantaged black people (and disadvantaged people of any other colour) as a way for self-improvement?
Yes or no.
'I served my country for justice for everyone' - justice is a process not a result. People need to either launch an appeal if possible or be mature and come to terms with it. I don't remember white people rioting when OJ Simpson walked free.
loveuni
In my post above adding responsibility would not have made a difference - but it would have made a helluva difference to MB, he would have avoided death.
Still to be answered: do you agree that during the time it takes for this great societal change to happen, responsibility, hard work and education must be stressed for disadvantaged black people (and disadvantaged people of any other colour) as a way for self-improvement?
Yes or no.
I have replied to your question satisfactorily and will add that there are enough successful people around who were disadvantaged to indicate that stressing hard work, education and responsibility are not enough. Perhaps what we need to see is a greater sense of responsibilty from those who have made it?
edit: have to leave my computer now
Ruby - I agree that those who have made it should show much more responsibility. This shouldn't be an excuse for disadvantaged people to sit on their backsides and wail 'woe is me!'
You responded to my question without directly answering it - any politician would be proud of your 'answer'
thank you loveunihatexams -
what else is there other than to be political?
btw speaking from a political angle I think everyone here has a valid pov that needs to be heard even if I don't agree with them. And I agree that disadvantaged people shouldn't sit on their backsides wailing woe is me but equally we shouldn't say that that is the main problem.
let's not try to encourage Gov. Scott Walker's world view more than necessary....
