Michael Brown verdict discussion policy

by Simon 254 Replies latest forum announcements

  • DesirousOfChange
    DesirousOfChange

    A low quality B&W video is not a medial examination.

    What matters is the medical evidence given to the jury, not what fox news was reporting that day.

    No...........a video taken within minutes (or even hours) of the incident is not a medical exam. But, a medical exam does not substanciate when or from whom a person was injured. If Wilson left the hospital with a broken eye socket as is claimed, it doesn't sound like he got the injury from struggling with Michael Brown. (Maybe the Asst Chief who drove him to the hospital?)

    Canada must have a higher caliber of municipal law enforcement recruitment than we do here. When I was growing up in the 70s, the best source of pot was a local munincipal cop. He'd confiscate booze and pot in traffic stops and do the driver "a favor" by not writing up the booze/drug charge.

    Doc

  • Simon
    Simon

    I don't think these protest are just about Michael Brown

    No, but that is the problem - the crowd are never going to be satisfied. The leadership tells them it is about black kids in general but the legal system is about this specific case.

    How do we reconcile the two? I don't think the legal system can or should budge one inch, the community leaders need to do a better job educating and explaining HOW to enact change.

    Chanting on the street isn't going to accomplish anything, what has to happen is that people engage and step up to serve in their communities. It starts with registering to vote, turning out for elections and having an interest in candidates so that you have a voice and promoting policing as a worthwhile career to people.

  • Marvin Shilmer
    Marvin Shilmer

    The issue of whether it was justified is really what matters.

    It will be interesting to, eventually, hear Officer Wilson's testimony about drawing and firing his sidearm as he did.

    When you feel like your life is threatened firing multiple rounds is understandable for those who've experienced the sensation. I once had a hunting experience when a wild boar turned for a head-on charge. There were two of us, and we suspected a hog was in bush ahead of us based on rustling of folage. When that thing finally emerged he was charging from not more than 30 feet away. It was a bit unnerving to see a 500lb critter charging straight at us, presumably to inflict harm. In that instance a rifle is worthless. My friend had a rifle in hand and I had a semi-automatic sidearm out, just for such an instance. That critter took several rounds before he even slowed. Every shot fired hit that animal, and he kept on coming until he fell dead in his tracks. When it was over I had 2 of 15 rounds left in my weapon. The whole thing couldn't have lasted more than 3-4 seconds.

    We weren't on the hunt for ferral pigs. We were deer hunting, but we knew wild hogs were in the area hence our sidearms. So the event was predictable but surprising.

    Of course this discussion is about firing on a human being, and accordingly there is a higher threshold value for choosing when to draw and then when to fire. That said, once decision is made based on fear of life, firing multiple rounds is understandable from my perspective. Honestly, I don't know how many rounds remained in Officer Wilson's sidearm, but if he felt like his life was threatened and he had half his rounds left I'd say his training probably held him back, which is a good thing. In my case I'm sure at least 2 of my rounds were fired after that hog hit the dirt. It sounds like Officer Wilson ceased fire the moment Mr. Brown was down. But, again, it will be interesting to hear what they man has to say about the incident.

  • Simon
    Simon

    Regarding my question: "How far was OW from MB when he first saw him..." is not an opinion, I did not ask how long was the encounter that resulted in the death of MB. Assuming Samlees post is true and Ow did know about the incident and that he did call for backup and that he did see MB and that he did identify MB as the suspect., we need to know the time when he first saw him, the time when he first identified him how far away was he when he first saw how far away was he when first identify him.

    He drove up to them, told them to get off the street, then apparently drove forward before reversing back to them.

    It is cracy for a police officer to drive by someone he suspects commited a violent felony and let him get so close to his gun. What an officer must do is call for back up and wait for backup up.

    It appears that the officer was stopping them because they were walking in the middle of the street. You are right, if he thought he found the suspect for the robbery then I doubt he would have tried to stop them on his own.

    Maybe they mouthed off or he realised that they were the two involved after the first interraction with them - something made him call for backup and reverse the car. Maybe MB realized that he has been recognised and that is what triggered his response?

    If he decides he wants to detain the subject without backup, he gets out of the car with the gun drawn (he has probable cause) and he orders the subject from a distance to get on the ground. But this is unlikely because if the suspect runs away he cannot shhot him in the back and has to run after him and subdue him. Of course if the subject pulls out a weapon or something he believes is a weapon, he can kill him. Bottom line he knows that he cannot subdue a subject of MB size if he resists without possibly killing him.Next option is to surprise the subject and point a gun at him close range, but that is hard to do for a marked car or uniformed officer and he still has to subdue him and he knows he may have to kill him.

    Really? He's going to risk doing all that? Why? With other cops about to arrive? With possible witnesses? It's in the middle of the street.

    He wasn't sneaking up on them, he had already spoken to them.

    How about the more reasonable explanation - that as he's getting out of the car MB charges him thus starting the incident.

  • Ruby456
    Ruby456

    simon I mostly agree with you regarding protest as that is how i too would recommend that people find a way to address injustice but I don't think the police force are completely irreprehensible and they could do with some more education in how to deal with race issues and with peaceful but strong protest. Okay yes if people become violent then bring out the more strong arm tactices of arresting people and dispersing the crowds but if they are protesting peacfully and even loudly then let them protest. this is a lesson the police in Ferguson had to be taught via a court order.

  • Fisherman
    Fisherman

    There is no contradiction in saying injurie(s) were fabricated and exaggerated (unless one is looking for such). I interpret the statement to mean that : 1) Ow had more than one injury 2) one or more injury was modified 3)another injury or injuries was faked. It is at the very least possible.

    I am not interpreting only reporting. That is why I used quotation marks. However, if there is no link, there is no link. Saying more than that is interpretation.

  • Simon
    Simon

    No...........a video taken within minutes (or even hours) of the incident is not a medical exam. But, a medical exam does not substanciate when or from whom a person was injured. If Wilson left the hospital with a broken eye socket as is claimed, it doesn't sound like he got the injury from struggling with Michael Brown. (Maybe the Asst Chief who drove him to the hospital?)

    So your theory now is that if the medical evidence does corroborate the officers story that you believe the assistant police chief "did him a favor" by punching him in the face?

    I think you've been watching too much TV.

    Canada must have a higher caliber of municipal law enforcement recruitment than we do here. When I was growing up in the 70s, the best source of pot was a local munincipal cop. He'd confiscate booze and pot in traffic stops and do the driver "a favor" by not writing up the booze/drug charge.

    I think the US police are less well trained by comparison with the UK police and the Canadian police are probably somewhere in the middle. Having guns in a society doesn't help / has to make things more challenging.

    But I think the US police get a bad rap. You watch the ride-along cop shows and see the dregs of society that the people have to deal with. It is a dangerous job - multiple cops from the TV shows have been killed while on duty, I doubt they are the only cases. I'm thankful someone steps up to do it. Imagine stopping someone and you have a split second to decide if they are reaching for their wallet or a gun? Make a mistake either way just once and it could be life-ending one way or the other.

    Sure, there will be some bad cops but I doubt they exist in the numbers claimed because the evidence isn't there to support it - all anecdoctal and apparently some boozed up druggy complaining about a cop now makes a credible witness. None of the respectable law abiding people I have ever known have ever had stories of rogue cops to tell.

    I think anyone who is disrespectful or criminal is simply an idiot. I'm actually surprised more people aren't shot - I think the police are remarkably restrained.

  • Fisherman
    Fisherman

    On one hand he identifies MB as the suspect of a Felony and calls for back up and also he only drives by him because he sees him in the middkle of the street.

    It does not make sense.

  • Simon
    Simon

    they could do with some more education in how to deal with race issues and with peaceful but strong protest

    Although I think the police overreacted in the initial protests there was also lots of provocation happening and it goes both ways - fewer people making silly claims that things are about race when they are not would also improve the situation.

    Ultimately, I think the only solution is for communities to have better representation and to take part in policing themselves but it doesn't appear that they want to do that. One reason I believe many of the complaints are unfounded or overplayed is that there are easy solutions but people seem to want to complain more than they want to try and fix things.

  • Simon
    Simon

    On one hand he identifies MB as the suspect of a Felony and calls for back up and also he only drives by him because he sees him in the middkle of the street.

    It does not make sense.

    The initial reason for stopping them is that they are walking down the middle of the street - that would seem to be pretty obvious, he was trying to drive down the street and they were interfering with traffic. He tells them to get off the road. That is undisputed.

    Maybe as he's driving off he gets a better look at them in the mirror and/or it just clicks that they may be the robbery suspects so he calls for backup and reverses back to them.

    That seems to make perfect sense to me and would also explain the sudden change of reaction by MB if he thinks he's now been identified.

    All theory of course but a theory that fits the known facts and typical human behavior without requiring that people make unrealistic decisions

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