That was a marvellous encounter Terry you just never know how your words of experience and knowledge will affect someone beneficially sometimes it takes a long time for the penny to drop then one day Pow ! the scales from their eyes just vanish and you might not even get to know about it.
I'm sitting here listening to a JW try to recruit somebody
Terry I am glad this turned out the way it did.....and I relate to the shock and surprise at your own emotions when faced with this kind of thing. It really is quite amazing.
The challenging part of opening ones eyes to the damaging corruption the WTS. retains as a high controlling
organization is a struggle to say the least for the WTS. is notably stealth in indoctrination programming and it
should be obviously clear to why it is so stealth.
Sounds like you may have open this lad's mind a bit Terry, hopefully encourage another direction like college or University.
I hope he sees the devious corruption of this organization and why its still in operation as religious publishing house.
Terry - I wish I was brave enough to do what you have done. I'm too chicken. It doesn't help that I don't know enough of what they believe or any scriptural knowledge to argue with despite being one of them for 20 years!
Not bitter, no scriptural knowledge after 20 years? That kind of proves they are not really a religion, but a publishing (and now real estate holding) cult. Glad you've seen the light.
Thanks for the supporting words of encouragement from one and all.
I'm guessing we all secretly want to pull somebody out of the org because it represents saving ourselves in a way--by proxy.
I also think about how many people I may have dragged INTO the Kingdom Halls from my door to door work as a Pioneer.
That will take many years of pulling people back out again to even the scales--IF that is even possible.
I suppose each of us is ultimately responsibile for going in and coming out.
The emotional tether is firm and endless in length; often impervious to time and distance.
Like the Christophers use to sing on that old Catholic TV show I watched with my grandmother as a kid,
"If everyone lit just one little candle, what a bright world this would be-e-e-e-e-e.
Incredible update . . .
Jordan returned yesterday afternoon.
About an hour before I had an appointment to leave, sitting at Starbucks working on book number three, I looked up
and Jordan was back WITH WITNESS MATERIAL.
He had done "research" consisting of reading JW apologetics about their history. Of course--why wouldn't he do that?
Cognitive dissonance works that way. When deep-seated, emotional beliefs are challenged the checklist begins with DENIAL.
The thrust of the discussion looked like it was going to be this:
Isn't there any way the Governing Body could have been innocent of wrongdoing in false date prediction those 20 times?
After all, Fred Franz was almost 100% unsupervised when he wrote those long screeds about prophetic explanations.
It was a clever argument, in my opinion. It is one I'd never heard before.
So, we spent a little time on that.
Here is what I gave him to think about.
EITHER THE GB IS CHANNELING WHAT JEHOVAH IS GIVING THEM (PURE TRUTH) OR THEY ARE TAMPERING WITH IT.
IF THEY ARE TAMPERING WITH IT (CORRUPTING, CHANGING, LYING) THEY ARE MISREPRESENTING TRUTH.
This would make them False Prophets.
1. Why would Jehovah continue to use False Prophets?
2. What would make JW's any different from all the other false religions?
3. If the GB simply passed on what Jehovah gave them why would JEHOVAH keep getting it wrong?
As you see and as we know, there is no way out of that quandry.
What happened next is rather extraordinary.
He asked me personal questions about my JW journey, my life, how I got into the Organization.
I told him about my best friend, Johnny who started talking to me, studying etc.
Jordan asked my what Johnny's last name was. I told him Johnny Santa Cruz.
Suddenly, Jordan almost has a heart-attack!
My best friend in the whole world, the guy who brought me into "the Truth", IS IN JORDAN'S CONGREGATION!
Well--he got goose bumps and I got goose bumps at the same time.
I had to jump up and walk that one off!
Jordan said to me, "HE TALKS ABOUT YOU ALL THE TIME!"
"Whenever the subject of 1975 comes up, Brother Santa Cruz is the only one who says 'Yes-we did say it was going to be the end' and he will argue with anybody who tries to claim the Society didn't."
Johnny, my old best friend, always tries to give history-based comments at the studies at the Kingdom Hall, apparently. He has a reputation as
the most reasonable Brother who tells it like it is.
I have to say--this was quite a unusual turn of events for me.
I know Johnny and I use to meet secretly once a week and have discussions. I also know Johnny was ratted out by one of his DF'd sons and he
had to stop communicating with me altogether.
But--it is good to hear HE STILL TALKS ABOUT ME to others.
I know that sounds rather pathetic for me to say it like that. But, I love Johnny and he will always be that first real friendship that never dies. At least, in my heart. The fact he loves his Kingdom Hall and phony religion more--well, that sort of tarnishes the whole damned friendship--don't you think:)
I had to leave when my appointment showed up. But, I told Jordan to go on YouTube and watch any video
with Bart Ehrman. Why? Jordan is troubled by the idea the Bible might NOT be infallible.
I pointed out to him that he needs to ask himself the question; WHY DO 40 THOUSAND CHRISTIAN DENOMINATIONS all base their
beliefs on the Bible and all end up with different answers?
Wouldn't the fact the Bible is NOT inspired explain it better than saying, JW's are the only ones who have it right? Especially when they
continue to get it wrong!
Jordan said he would try to come back on Monday.
Since he has only stuck with JW apologetic material--it isn't a very good sign any honest investigation will happen.
I did say this to him:
"If you want to know if O.J. killed Nicole, you can't find out by reading what O.J. writes. You have to use external evidence."
I told him the WTS is trying to cover its tracks.
He seemed amazed I would suggest they have knowledge of wrong-doing.
I told him the most incriminating thing the WTS does is to act like a guilty party who knows they might be found out.
1. They change evidence of their wrong teachings
2. They make excuses
3. They blame-shift
4. They misquote sources
5. They forbid the use of outside authority
6. The threaten rather than engage contrary opinions
I simply told him to think about it.
"Don't listen to anything I say, Jordan. Investigate on your own and make your own decisions."
He told me he DOES NOT consider me the kind of Apostate described by the Watch Tower.
The most gratifying statement he made to me is this.
"I ask myself why the Society is telling me ex-JW's are liars and here you are trying to give me straight facts. Why would they do that?"
Yeah--why would they?
Watch this space for further developments.
I know I over use the word,... but that is bloody AWESOME!
You can lead a horse to water, ... is an oft used phrase.
It might just be the kind of weekend I am having, but this experience brought tears to my eyes, can't stop.
I am close to someone who left his life and the truth, and is being shunned by his family; I am there for him and we hang out as much as we can.
I spent time with him Friday, so maybe that is what is beneath it.
But this story is such a vivid reminder of the extreme damage the witnesses do.
Kudos to you Terry, for stepping up and taking the time to try to break through the thick wall of denial the WT built up around this young man.
Even if he goes back to the hall, the ideas and the honest way you talked to him will stay in his mind; that's how it seems to work; the mind will eventually just call a halt to what it knows is wrong.
Terry, keep up the good work; you are on your 3rd book, you are my hero.
Terry. I hope that you also volunteered to always talk with him and/or to help Jordan develop a new support network, if his independent research confirms what you are telling him. It is unfortunate that the WTBTS and JWs will not allow JWs to quietly leave and live their lives to their full potential.
Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,