The Ravings of Trolls Distracts FOCUS From Real Watchtower Scandals

by cofty 95 Replies latest watchtower scandals

  • Ucantnome
    Ucantnome

    They took a very high position as the mouthpiece of God. Do you want to disregard what God is telling you through his mouthpiece old Goat? We were to have faith in what we preached.

    I understand that faith is the assurance of the things hoped for. I also understand that it's impossible to please God without it.

    My father talks in glowing terms of the anointed that studied with him how well he knew his bible but he was also as the anointed responsible for what was taught, things like the blood teaching, disfellowshipping, and the Good News that was preached. I didn't feel quite the same as my father.

  • Old Goat
    Old Goat

    When I was a new Witness, the majority of the congregation were "anointed." They were no different than those who did not claim an anointing. A true spirit anointing does not make you better, stronger, able to leap tall buildings at a single bound. It does not make you smarter, better looking, or more faithful. In the biblical sense - and as the watchtower actually teaches it - it marks you for a different destiny. If an "anointed" brother or sister seems more knowledgeable, it's because they've probably studied the material longer than others. They do tend to be on the older side.

    To return to your illustration using Eve: She and "the serpent," whom we usually take to be Satan, received the same punishment. Eve died. Satan will. So who was the more responsible? Perhaps not every watchtower doctrine or practice we dislike is unscriptural. But even if they all were, are we free from the obligation to test what we learn? No. Not even if our parents taught it to us.

    The Protestant reformation returned the idea of personal responsibility to the fore. The Latin phrase sola scriptura, meaning “by scripture alone,” set the standard for faith. It is a biblical standard. The Watchtower gives lip service to that, but takes it away by crafting a governing system not found in the New Testament. (Enough of this Greek Scriptures nonsense!) We are not responsible for what they've done. We are responsible for believing what they say.

    Arguments that focus on someone else's blame are like a child rejecting discipline by saying, "But YOU ..." It doesn't matter what someone else does. It matters what we've done. This is what the Bible teaches. We see that in Joshua’s “as for me and my household.”

  • Ucantnome
    Ucantnome

    Old Goat i never said that i don't take responsibility for what i believed and what i done. However it took years to figure it out. When i figured it out I left.

    I still don't like people telling me things as if they know something and i need to hear it.

    The claims that were made took time to see if they came true. I lived through 1975 we didn't leave. 20 years I stopped the preaching as i could no longer support 1914 due to the Watchtower. Not enough to be a witness about the events that were said to have taken place. As I could no longer witness i was no longer a witness. This was 20 years ago.

    If i had left prior to this it would have been premature.

  • Old Goat
    Old Goat

    Ucant,

    sorry. it's the old-time lecturer in me. If I treated you as one of my students, I apolgize.

  • Ucantnome
    Ucantnome

    I'm not cross with you Old Goat I'm more cross with myself if i'm honest.

  • Old Goat
    Old Goat

    Ucant,

    I sympathise. I devoted years to what I saw as The Truth. I still believe that many Witnesses are christians. I dont' see current teaching and practice as christian. But I have regrets. I regret things I said because I now see them as wrong. I spent some months trying to redirect an abusive elder, and ended up being abusive myself. I am, alas, now a cranky old man.

    But new life is new life. If you are certain the Witnesses are wrong, then don't look back. If you regret what you've done in the past, make is as right as you can and leave the rest in God's hands. If you feel you need to return to revalidate where you are, attend meetings for a while. See if you feel other than you once did.

    I think the Watchtower is wrong in vital areas. I do not see them (most of them anyway) as anything but true believers, even if they are misguided. I'm not a uinversal salvationist, but I think the book of Jonah teaches that salvation comes even to those who are misguided and child-like. If Witnesses are that, they are still within God's Grace. I know not many here think similarly. But that is how I think.

  • Ucantnome
    Ucantnome

    I think you could be right, I hope so. I don't hate the witnesses. I have some who i'm friends with. I think some maybe better off staying as witnesses. They still come to my door. I've discussed many things with them over the years since I left and i returned for a while.

    I think actually coming here has helped me validate how i feel. As it has made me look things up and think about them.

    Thanks Old Goat for your thoughts

    (in my post 1322 it should say, 20 years later i stopped the preaching)

  • Focus
    Focus

    Focus feels duped by who ever converted him to Witness theology.

    Strike One!

    On the ASS-U-ME rule, that is.

    No one ever did convert me to any WTS or similar ridiculous theology.

    I've been a lifelong atheist. Thank Sheol, I was born smart. No credit to me.

    Furthermore, in the last couple of days you've responded to a thread in which I've stated that I'm a lifelong atheist. Forgotten?

    People of average or better intelligence usually have no difficulty grasping what I write. They sure may not like it, but they do grasp it.

    So what's your excuse, then, eh, Old Goat, for your failure?

    Was it the same total lack of reading comprehension that got you ensnared by the Old Whore?

    And now you have the audacity to reprimand me!

    Truly bizarre and Orwellian, lol - but good entertainment value.

    What you see as impulsive anger is in fact implacable cold hatred, caused not for any direct damage the Filthy Whore has done to me, but what I have observed it do to others.

    Since the WTS had the audacity to call my writings "Spiritual Pornography", by the same token they and the majority of their "Elder" Class are "Spiritual Rapists, Sodomites and Pedophiles". Why the latter? Because of the deep spiritual damage to children that these appalling monsters perpetrate - the foulest crime of them all.

    But we are responsible for the decisions we make. If we failed to investigate before conversion, the fault is our own.

    You do realise you are repeating exactly what I have stated very recently in this very thread, just a little above, eh? I even put it in bold.

    Strike Two.

    If we persist in believing the impossible, that’s our fault too. If we adopted a manner of life we found we could not sustain, we made that decision. Blaming others for our walk in life makes us resemble a guilty child who shouts, “I didn’t do it!” Witnesses do not hold a knife to anyone’s back. They persuade, apply social pressure, hold out a system of “holiness” and reward. But if we were persuaded to believe, the final decision was our own. Assume responsibility for yourself.

    Also, all in my post above, lol.

    What Focus does resembles a tempering child.

    I think you need to look up the word "tempering" in a dikshunhairy, friend. It doesn't mean what you think it does. Not at all - I'm happy to be "tempering" - that may give you a clue.

    I never ever lose my temper, note. Well, once in my life, when I was a teenager, and I learned to never lose it again.

    I am usually smiling broadly while I type. "Now" is no exception.

    Focus makes many claims.

    .... and Focus has a long history of backing them up with thousands (cumulatively, tens of thousands, going back 20 years of cult-crimefighting) of quotations from WTS litteritchah, and going back 13 years in j-w.net and another decade before that elsewhere, with plenty of rational argument to justify my positions.

    I'm not responsible for your faulty perceptions of or guesses about me. You are.

    In contrast, my perceptions of you are directly based on a cold rational reading of what you write and how you apparently think.

    Yours are generally ad hominem. In short, your assertions about me say nothing about me, but reveal plenty about you. Take the dub out of the Hall, but a bit of the Hall stays in the dub, eh, Old Goat?

    Those who quietly wrote letters back before Focus even questioned Witness belief

    I knew WTS doctrine was a load of utter bullshit from the moment I first encountered it. Thereafter, my views only strengthened.

    I question the sanity and/or intelligence of anyone who, as an adult, bought into the crap. Or got to the stage when they needed to "write letters back". Letters to whom? Obvious delusionals, charlatans and liars? lol!

    As to others knowing so much more than I about WTS crime - lol.

    Alan Feuerbacher, generally accepted as one of the most knowledgeable of all WTS researchers and commentators - inter alia, the vanquisher of Greg Stafford - whose works are available all over the internet, has on several times (here in what was JWD and elsewhere, e.g. H2O) volunteered his opinion that his own insights on, and detailed knowledge of the history and actions of, this filthy, disgusting harlotdom of Watchtowerinsanity were inferior to mine.

    That was a near consensus view here during 2001-3, my period of activity, and it was sometimes shared by the many who disliked me (how could anyone? lol!), and in the decade before that on H2O, Witnet and in Usenet (talk.religion.misc and alt.religion.jehovahs-witn).

    Is there a reason I should disbelieve AlanF & Co., and believe you, Old Goat? If we debated various areas of WTS idiocy - the choice is a breathtaking one - it is quite possible that the cribbing material you'd Google for was actually written by me in the first place.

    (Sundry verbiage written mainly to demean or insult me snipped and thrown into the dustbin with a laugh)

    Focus, I do not see maturity in your future.

    That's Great News! Straight from the Proclaimers book, indeed.

    You could have castrated that sentence immediately after the first four words, though.

    Sorry, the gap, nay chasm, in intelligence and education is probably too great to surmount in the little time available before the harvest. This gulf precludes rational discourse - always unfortunate, as there is always something to learn for both parties.

    The idiotic assumptions that you presumptuously and arrogantly make about me illustrate full well how you were thoroughly tricked and swindled in the first place. You jump to conclusions hastily, and then try to justify them - bending or suppressing the evidence available, as you see fit.

    Perhaps you could print out what I scribble here, and underline bits of it to remind you of the good old days, eh?

    By contrast, I am certain about very, very few things, including my own existence. I readily change my mind when new information is available.

    But sadly, the world has very many Old Goats, and alarmingly few Focuses, lol.

    Go and get a broad education, preferably in the hard sciences, get a Ph.D. or two, first class degrees throughout, qualify in a couple of exacting professions, spend a lifetime in reading and deep thinking on a wide variety of subjects, and then come back.

    I am sorry if the above appears at all harsh. But I do believe in accountability, and that those throwing stones be prepared for a few mild projectiles in return.

    Old Goat, a fine example of someone still apparently mentally part-enmeshed in the Filthy Whore. I am sorry.

    Instead of daring to lecture me (what did you officially lecture in, I wonder...), you should be prostrating yourself before every single person you misled and deceived while you were vectoring this evil disease, and begging them to forgive you, and offering to make amends to them - financially too, if possible.

    If you can't find all the people, mentally humble yourself before them, and pay $1,000 into a bona-fide secular charity per such head.

    Others - it is generally a waste of time trying to remove people from the cult, or who still are cultically inclined. It is simply too labor-intensive to be worth the effort. This is often a tragedy. Again, I am sorry that this is the case, but it is the case. It is heart-rending when you love them.

    A far more efficient use of time is preventing this foul disease from further vectoring, preferably by destroying the very mechanism of infection. An extremely challenging task most dismiss as impossible. They may be right. I don't know. But I do know what is the best mode of attack (which is my focus), and it is one squarely directed towards the one and only one thing the WTS loves and respects:

    The Almighty Dollar (or Euro, or Pound, or Yen... God's Sole Channel isn't choosy!)

    Now, all that laughing has given me an appetite. Old Goat, I was only pulling your billy. (Probably.)

    Oh - almost forgot - WHACK!

    __

    Focus

    ("Love - none of this agape crap" Class)

    Space reserved below for the usual collection of followers, mockers, etc., lol.

  • cofty
    cofty

    Focus - You have a habit of accusing everybody who isn't impressed by your self-adulation of being still like a JW.

    It's very tedious.

  • Splash
    Splash

    Me, Big Brain. You, Little Brain.

    Who was it that said self glory is no glory?

    Splash

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit