Accusing Ex-JWs of Behaving Like JWs Should be Taboo

by cofty 447 Replies latest members private

  • problemaddict
    problemaddict

    No doubt there is a way that is best to "argue". I dont even spend much time here anymore, and even I assumed this thread was the result of basically topic spamming by a Christian dude who refused to have a conversation.

    I agree sayign smeone is "acting like a JW", is a low blow on this board. Snare called it "distasteful".....I tend to agree.

    While athiests can be a huffy bunch, I have no reason to think Cofty of all people has crossed the invisible boundary or classy on this board. we discuss ideas. Sometimes it gets personal where it shoudn't.

    So what. Everyone grow up.

    Also.....since when did outspoken woman = strong woman? A person with an opinion they won't back down from is not by default "strong". That isn't a commentary on any person in particular, but I would jsut say lets assume the ability to deal with a "strong woman", is probably not the issue? :)

  • Oubliette
    Oubliette

    FHN: I don't think anyone on the forum has a problem with respectful discussions of atheism, theism, science.

    If only that were true.

    Without intending to stir the pot, there really is a problem that more than a few posters have with addressing CONTENT and resisting the urge to attack PEOPLE.

    I'm really not sure why that is, but it is.

  • FlyingHighNow
    FlyingHighNow

    Oub, I see I didn't word that comment well enough to make it clear. I'm trying to say that when discussions of atheism, theism and science stay respectful, people have no problem with them. When they become a problem is when they cross the line into being disrespectful and ugly.

  • FlyingHighNow
    FlyingHighNow

    I agree sayign smeone is "acting like a JW", is a low blow on this board. Snare called it "distasteful".....I tend to agree.

    Cofty brought up the word context. It is all about the context. In addition to context, it helps if it's not worded in a mocking way.

  • Oubliette
    Oubliette

    FHN: I'm trying to say that when discussions of atheism, theism and science stay respectful, people have no problem with them.

    Thanks for the clarification. I understand now what you're saying and see that your previous post actually said that.

    So the question then is: Why do some people "cross the line into being disrespectful and ugly"?

    I have some ideas, but now we're getting out of my areas of expertise and into behavioral psychology and mind-reading, neither of which I am qualified to do!

  • Oubliette
    Oubliette

    FHN: Cofty brought up the word context. It is all about the context. In addition to context, it helps if it's not worded in a mocking way.

    Cofty has a way of getting under people's skin. When I first came on this board, I went head-to-head with him for a few rounds. (Not sure who, if either of us, won!)

    He and I have discussed his somewhat abrupt manner on more than one occasion. One thing I like about Cofty is that he listens to what you have to say. He may or may not change.

    But the really important thing is this: It's not about Cofty, or me or you or anyone else. It's about all of us; and it's about all of us trying to figure out what is really right, what is really true and who we really are. So many of us here left the JW religion at great personal expense. We've lost friends and family members. But we've gained ourselves.

    For my part, I miss my children terribly and everyday I try to find a new way to reach them and to rescue them from this cult. But I don't regret leaving and re-discovering myself and living my own life. I would not, if I could, do it over and stay in this religion living a lie just to be with my children. If I did that, what kind of example would I be to them? Not the kind of example I want to be, that's for sure!

    I am here, on the outside. I daily plan and work to find a means of rescue for them. I may be successful, I may not, but I never give up.

    Now it may seem that I've digressed and moved off the point of the OP with my rambling, but I have not. I have lost much to leave this religion and I have suffered much to try to save my children. I have even undergone the painful humiliating process of being reinstated into a religion which I believe is a destructive, deceitful cult just so I could attempt to reach my children with TTATT. I endured all the meetings for over a year listening to all the indoctrination and lies and manipulation; I sat through seven different judicial meetings where elders I could not respect interrogated me mercilessly just so I could be reinstated. I bit my tongue, I held my voice, but I never lied or compromised my integrity. I used their own manipulation and deceit against them to accomplish my goals. I told them things knowing full well they would understand them differently than I intended them: Theocratic Warfare is a bitch, ain't it honey. Well fuck them, because I learned if from them. It was difficult, it was painful and it was the hardest thing I have ever had to do in my life ... and the worst part is that here I am a year later and it doesn't even seemed to have done any good. Time may tell a different story, but for now it is what it is.

    Don't misunderstand. I'm not asking for your sympathy, only your understanding. Maybe you can't give me that, but I believe I deserve it. I believe we all do. With all that I have gone through--as have so many of us on this forum--for anyone to accuse me of "behaving like a JW" is one of the most despicable insults they could hurl at me.

    It's not only wrong, it's grossly insensitive, it's mean-spirited and it is cruel. But most of all, it is just wrong.

    I come here for many reasons. I come here to rant; I come here to deconstruct WT fallacies; I come here to be helped by others that are farther along than I am in the journey out of this nightmare, I come here to hopefully help others who are maybe not as far along in their journey out of this cult. I come here to listen and to make connections with others that have experiences similar to mine. I come here to share and I come here to learn.

    But there is one thing that I do not come here for. I do not come here to be abused.

  • Simon
    Simon

    Some people seem to have leapt on this topic as an opportunity to demonstrate how incapable they are of reasonable discussion.

    When you resort to name calling instead of putting forward a reasoned argument it's usually because you have no argument.

    Maybe that's a hint to shut up ...

  • Viviane
    Viviane

    It bears repeating that if people, claiming to be adults, resort to insults rather than engaging in discussion on the substance of an issue, then that person hasn't learned to discuss things like an adult. Sadly, many here haven't learnt how to have an adult discussion.

  • Comatose
    Comatose

    To me "being JWish" is blindly refusing to even consider actual facts sitting in front of your face. I think I've used the expression before when a poster was exhibiting that closed minded attitude... It probably was used as a jab to try to make the person think and annoy them some. I'm big enough to admit it.

    I don't understand how this arguing came about based on the merits of the OP.

  • Splash
    Splash

    Viviane ...if people, claiming to be adults, resort to insults...

    That in itself is a somewhat insulting start to your post.

    You are very erudite Viviane, but I don't think there are many on here who will take counsel from you on not being insulting.
    You have demonstrated a persistently severe and derogatory tongue, seemingly enjoying the broad extent of dismissive put downs you have in your quiver of vocabulary.

    When the invective begins (I'm speaking in general here) it causes people to become defensive then return insults, trivialising others' posts, opinions or education, or offensively laughing at their comments. Essentially it snowballs and does nothing for either the community here, or the thread topic. It becomes daunting for some to want to contribute in case they don't say the "right" thing.

    There's a world of difference between disagreeing on an alternate point of view, and what is happening with increasing regularity on this board.

    Quite frankly there are some habitual provocateurs and it's making this board a much worse place to be.

    Splash

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