My Elderette is returning today to CONDUCT another conversation...

by Faithful Witness 85 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Faithful Witness
    Faithful Witness

    punkofnice: That is a great question! I have been asking myself this, since I made the first appointment. I honestly never thought it would go past one meeting. The only reason I have kept meeting with her, is that she keeps coming back! I've scared away every JW who has come to my door in the last 2 years, even though I have invited them back. They don't like my questions, and when we start reading the bible from a passage that I ask about, they suddenly have to leave.

    I have been sort of winging it, chipping away at the organization and the things she is so proud of.

    I have read lots of opinions and experiences from ex-JW's, and people who care about JW's. The Watchtower has divided my family. I've seen the news reports of the scandals in the Watchtower organization. I've read "apostate" websites, done my own research (as the JW's love to say they do... when do you have time for that??).

    I am taking her advice. I still have questions about the JW's. Instead of reading about them, I'm asking one directly.

    Based on the recent articles I have read (and I have not read all of them), and the questions that I have been asking her, she is not following the instructions that are being dispensed to her. I have revealed myself, on each of her visits. The only thing I have not done, is quote from their literature and present her with apostate information. (She knows I know, but we have agreed to stick with "inspired" writing).

    When I agreed to the first appointment, I thought it wouldn't go beyond that. When I didn't come to the conclusion that Jesus appointed a faithful and discreet slave to feed people their spiritual food after 1914, she wanted to talk about something else.

    She came the 2nd time, and tried to prove that JW's are teaching the truth (and therefore everyone else is teaching lies). She asked if JW's taught anything that wasn't true, and I challenged her on the use of the name of Jehovah, even above Jesus Christ (name above all names). I asked her when Jesus told us to call God by his first name. She couldn't prove that either, although she apparently believes that Jesus DID tell us to do that, and it was one of the main reasons He came (to sanctify God's name, which Jesus is never on record as saying the name out loud. He always called him Father... Why didn't he tell us how to pronounce it? Oh, (she said) they changed the bible (removed Jehovah's name in the NT)... Is the bible the true and accurate word of God, or not?).

    She might think that I am going to agree to indefinitely allow her to come to my home and make me listen to her rambling on about why she is teaching the truth. She is not even going to get started tomorrow. I've already done the whole Teach book with the JW's.

    She asked me last week, if I would be willing to "look at the bible with a fresh perspective."

    Since I AM already doing just that, by actually READING the bible, I don't see what she has to offer me. I'm declining her offer, and will be glad to tell her why. Been there, done that. I've already looked from JW perspective. Thank you all for confusing me so much!

    I think my initial reason in meeting her, was to try to wake her up and look at her own religion for what it is. She just keeps defending the lies and the changes, doesn't mind being confused about what she actually believes, what instructions they are preparing to give her, etc. She proudly proclaims that none of that matters (or she doesn't need to understand it), because she just knows that JW's have the truth and are pleasing Jehovah God, and then asking me what other things I have questions about.

    Tomorrow will be our last meeting, unless SHE wants me to show HER a new perspective. (Is that why she keeps coming back?)

  • Apognophos

    I think you've got a pretty good handle on the situation now. It's rare for a JW to engage in an intellectually honest dialogue with someone. If they allow doubts to develop in their mind, then what if they "fall out of the truth" and miss their panda paradise? In other words, they have a fear of using their own critical thinking ability, because what if they decide it's not the truth, but they're wrong and they get destroyed at Armageddon? Or what if they're right, and they've wasted so many years of their life trying to convince people of inane facts like "Jesus wanted us to use God's name even though we don't have any record that he used the name"?

    Next time you meet will probably be the last if you politely turn her away. So it's your last opportunity, if you wish, to present her with something "apostate" that might get her thinking, maybe something that will chip away at her faith in the organization. I know that learning about the organ transplant flip-flop was the single biggest proof for me personally that they couldn't be God's channel. Or you could just live and let live, it's up to you.

    Just keep in mind that, if you do decide to present her with some information, you need to do so verbally, in just one or two sentences, before she can stop you. It will be pointless to give her anything to read, because she'll just throw it away later (I know this from experience). Alternately, a thought-provoking question that appeals to the heart might work better with her. Something like, "What if you're wrong? It's been 100 years since you say Christ was enthroned, why hasn't anything happened yet? What if something still hasn't happened in 20 years?" Get her thinking about the future, her future. JWs don't generally do that, and before they know it, their whole life has gone by in service to the organization. Some JWs only begin to think critically once they realize that some day they might end up like their parents and their grandparents, decrepit and wondering why the end hasn't come yet.

  • punkofnice

    Thanks FW

    because she just knows that JW's have the truth

    HahahahahahahahahahahHAAAAAAAAAHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!! Lawd have merceeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee pon mi raaaaassss soul!

    Now that is mind control at work 100%. She has been brainwashed to believe the unsupported nonsense that will ultimately give the Governing body money to continue to protect paedophiles.

    It's very much: 'I love big brother!'

  • stuckinarut2

    Tell her to just put on a 'head covering' and shove her head up her ass.......

  • Faithful Witness
    Faithful Witness

    I have not yet received any communication from her. I've been expecting to get a text, confirming our appointment today. I guess there is a possibility that she is chickening out... although she seemed like she wanted to talk about the "truth, the way, and the life."

    I continue to wrestle with how to handle this situation. I am not claiming some high calling or anything, but it really seems like the JW's keep appearing all around me, and I know they need help. "Get out of her, you people!" I suspect that I have shaken 1 or 2, as they never came back to answer the questions I posed to them from their own bibles.

    Am I supposed to continue trying to help this lady? I know many here do not believe in God anymore, but what is His will in this situation?

    Should I run and protect myself from her? Should I continue to plant seeds of doubt? Should I allow her to read that Bible Teach book with me, which will allow me to help her see it for what it really is?

    Why does she keep coming back here?

    My friend came over yesterday, and suggested that Miss K has been sent to me from the org... like they were conspiring to get to me or something. I don't buy that idea at all, since we live in the territory of one KH, and Miss K goes to another. (we attended the "wrong" one, which was in our zip code). Also, I first ran into her at the store and then a chance meeting at a gas station, leading to a long conversation and her offer to come over.

    The same friend is worried that I should not be letting her into my house, as she is a heretic and a deceiver. I've expressed my concerns (and those of cultBgone and others) that Miss K could gain influence over me, if I just let her take control of the conversation every time.

    Another friend from a bible study group I belong to, suggested that Miss K has a demon attached to her, and that I should pray over my house and all around it before she comes inside. LOL. I don't know about all THAT...

    After making declarations that I "just don't have time to deal with this," I started getting these nagging reminders in my mind that it is not for me to always understand the purpose of the trials and challenges in my life. Maybe I should consider continuing my meetings with her, under different conditions. We can meet for shorter times. I can have my turn to speak and actually finish my sentences. Meet every 2 weeks, instead of every week.

    The concern that keeps coming into my mind, is the consequence of ending these sessions by my own choice.

    Will the decision to quit meeting with her, mark me in some way? Will the JW's stop calling on me, or will even more of them start avoiding me when they see me in public?

    I have been put in a unique situation to reach out. I have inside information, but still enjoy the freedom to talk to most JW's I see. I don't want them to stop coming to my door, either. Do the different congregations communicate with each other and compare notes?

  • punkofnice

    the JW's keep appearing all around me

    They're counting you as a return visit, maybe a study and putting the hours spent (with a few added), on the monthly report slip. This ensures their entry into paradise earth(tm) when armageddon(tm) comes....SOON(tm).

  • Faithful Witness
    Faithful Witness

    So they will keep coming back, no matter what I say?

    Are the service hours their main focus?

    Will what I say to one, stop another from coming to the door?

  • punkofnice

    So they will keep coming back, no matter what I say?

    Yep. Unless you tell them to shove off in no uncertain terms.

    Are the service hours their main focus?

    To most JWs yes. That's why they shamble around slowly hoping not to meet anyone.....easy way to count time on the end of month slip....the slip that has no basis in the scriptures.....the slip by which the elders judge them. There are of course genuine JWs that really do want to save lives.

    Hey, there's a thing. You could ask them about their counting time. Where it is required in the Bible and if not why they do it? They will likely say it's to give an indication of how the 'work(tm)' is progressing but I actually think you'll find there are implications of a financial nature involved....probably a tax dodge I would imagine.

    Will what I say to one, stop another from coming to the door?

    You love Satan and have decided to allow the demons into your life and home??

    Well, in truth you would need to ask them to put you on the 'do not call list' that they will put on the territory slip for your street so that no one will call.

  • blondie

    I remember one pioneer sister crowing that she kept coming back until they said "don't come back ever again." I was asked by a co-worker how to get them to stop coming, I said "Don't be nice, just be brief and concise, "Don't come back ever again."

  • jgnat

    I wouldn't agonize so much about demons and God's will. He knows your heart and as soon as it is not doing you any good, stop it. As for demons, Witnesses fear churches for the same thing. I see two groups mutually fearful of "demons" when the reality us much more mundane. Witness meetings are BORING! There are no supernatural forces dragging people in to the trap that is the Jehovah's Witnesses, it's simply a well-orchestrated recruitment plan that inserts phobias and thought-stopping ideas in to the potential convert. The time and commitment required to get through a study makes it an embarrassment to stop and say, "Boy was I stupid to waste all this time."

    Count all the hours this elderette has invested in the preaching work, making all the meetings, marking all the literature. If she admitted all of that was a fools errand, wouldn't she look stupid? Collossally stupid. Much easier to keep up the fiction of the importance of her work. That's why she can't dare stop to take a breath when she preaches.

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