My Elderette is returning today to CONDUCT another conversation...

by Faithful Witness 85 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • JunkYardDog

    faithfull witness ; there is no more blabber the wt claims Jesus choose the wt to be the TRUE religion from his inspection christ did from 1914-1918. ask these jw's to get out the wt books printeED from 1914-1918. because you NEED to feel just as convienced as jesus was in 1918? tell thEm don't waist yor time with bullcrap get to the point DID JESUS CHOOOSE THE WT IN 1918 OR NOT? !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! make them prove it acts 17'11 1 thes 5 21 etc tell then thwey fAL ON THEIR faces on the false prophecy about 1799 , 1874 78 1907 19112 , 1914, 15 18 20 , 1872. 73 76. 1881 , 1905 1972 1843 44 1829 1921 1925 1884 you have enough dates ASK WHICH ONE WAS FOOD FOOD FROM UJEHOVAS TABLE??????????????????????????????? WHY IN HELL IS THE WT lying about what they preached 100 yrs agos as facts?????????????????????????????????????

  • themaccauk11

    ask her why jw have become partial preterists . Meaning they now admit that prophecy was fulfille din the 1st century which i knew long before that but now claim a dual fulfillment in the future which is a lie becausde the bible says it was for one generation only and jesus said the tribulation would never be seen again. I beleive all things were fulfille din the 1st century see seekchristonly on youtube

  • Faithful Witness
    Faithful Witness

    Junkyard: That is where I am headed with her, but am approaching in a more gentle and inquisitive manner. I want to appear interested, but doubtful. She has failed to prove the JW truth, exclusively from the bible, twice. It will eventually get to the point, where she will again say something like, "each person has to draw their own conclusion, and decide who is teaching the truth today."

    She has hinted at the fact that the organization had a founder, and seems fully aware that their history is blemished.

    We agreed to study "only inspired writings" together. If she really wants to include their "study aids" and publications of the Watchtower, I think she knows I have done my homework.

    Now that I see how she operates, and the tactics that she uses, I plan to play the same game with her. I am learning a lot about how to talk to JW's from her... she is good at the game, and I have let her think I am cooperative and deferring to her "expertise," I have been studying her behavior and technique.

  • Apognophos

    I think there was nothing wrong with the fact that you were polite and deferred to them in your last conversation. You couldn't have known in advance just how much they would run you over conversationally. Some Witnesses would listen better than she did. As you say, now you realize that you need to be more assertive. There's plenty of time to ramp up your assertiveness as you see fit, if you want to continue having them by.

    Anyway, you mentioned:

    She has hinted at the fact that the organization had a founder, and seems fully aware that their history is blemished.

    Typically, a Witness will fully acknowledge that Russell started the organization. However, if you suggest he started the religion, that's a different matter (try it, see what she says). And they should admit (unless they are feeling especially defensive) that the early organization had some, well, issues. Celebrating Christmas, birthdays, using the cross, etc. In the peculiar doublethink world of the Witness, these are not things to be embarrassed about, but just go to show how much they've improved over the years, what with the light getting brighter and all.

    By the way, you might want to see if they have any backup scriptures for Prov. 4:18, because it's rather silly to suggest that the one verse is sufficient proof, or prophecy, that God's people would be changing their beliefs in the time of the end.

    Ultimately, though, I don't think focusing on the past of the religion will be very productive. Witnesses don't feel that what Russell or Rutherford did has any bearing on "present truths". Nor does 1975, which many Witnesses today were not even alive for. We can argue that this past still matters, but for Witnesses it's ancient history, and they will just dismiss your concerns with Prov. 4:18 and the "who else?" argument. I would suggest it's better to pick a modern doctrine that doesn't hold up. There's really no need to pick on past mistakes when they're still making mistakes right now. The blood doctrine has holes in it that you could drive a truck through, for instance.

  • cultBgone

    Dear Faithful -

    Please consider your own words on this matter:

    Unless they can be more respectful to me, I don't see why I should continue to study with them. I have no intention of ever becoming a JW, and I know that cultBgone is correct. They are not doing me any good, but really just wasting my time, as I spin my wheels.

    The lies and insults can be saved for someone else. I don't know what I am going to say yet, but I realize that I do have to get myself out of this situation, after reading my own description of what is happening here. When she confirms our appointment, I am going to make sure and tell her that I need to keep it to less than 90 minutes this time. I need to grow a backbone, between now and next Friday. I really am not sure why I agreed to let Miss K into my home, but now that I see how it is going to go, I have changed my mind.

    I think I just need to be firm and honest with them. My time and my own sanity have more value than this. I almost wish that I didn't have to wait a week for her to come back, so I can get this over with. I'm guessing that the length of time between BS sessions, is all part of the process. They don't want to come back while you are still "hot." They wait until you cool off and allow it all to start over again. The day AFTER the BS session, is the most full of awareness of what just happened, at least for me.

    Several well-meaning people have suggest how to "handle" them next time and you now appear to be ready for another go at it. Please don't be such a people-pleaser that you continually allow others to direct your life! Because, dear one, that makes you Prime jw Material. They look for followers who will bend to their will, and the longer you continue this charade with them, the more danger there is that you will begin to believe their nonsense. Make no mistake, this is how they work!

    Please stop listening to suggestions as to "how" you should control the "next" study brainwashing session. A lovely polite No More, Thank You, and Please Don't Come Back as I Have No Interest in Becoming a jw But I Was Just Leading You On in an Attempt to Get You Out of the Cultwill allow you to get on with YOUR Real Life. Just Call Them and Cancel Forever. You don't owe an explanation as YOUR LIFE IS NONE OF THEIR BUSINESS! You don't owe them another meeting in your home. No more drama. Just Say NO. Do NOT let them talk you into one more meeting. Be kind to yourself and find something more upbuilding to do with your time. End this now, for your own sake.

    With much Love and (((hugs))), cBg

  • Crazyguy

    Thier arrogance disqualifies them, do not exalt yourselves, Jesus said. Hit her with all the false dates and end is near stuff then finish her off with Luke 21:8.

  • Aunt Fancy
    Aunt Fancy

    I have missed some posts because I don't understand why you are putting yourself through this. I have to agree with CultBgone in this matter. You are allowing negative people and teachings to get into your mind and it is not healthy. If you are trying to get family out that is another matter but why study with people you barely know or that don't have any respect for you? They don't care about you as a human being but you are a number they can add to their field service report.

    I would not even allow them back into my home with the way they treated you the last time by degrading you. I would call them and tell them you are not interested and please do not come back, end of story.

  • dabster

    Hi Faithful Witness,

    I suppose I might be one of the well-meaning people cultBgone refers to who have suggested a way in which to handle Miss K and Miss W. He is well-intentioned. But his advice to you,

    Please don't be such a people-pleaser that you continually allow others to direct your life!

    would be ignored if you were to follow it. The fact is that people are leaving the Watchtower organisation. It's not at all uncommon. I'm not sure the Great Commission excludes any group. I'm seeing results as I share with a JW neighbour. On one occasion, when we were reading Romans 10 to see from the context that the Lord mentioned in v.13 was Jesus rather than Jehovah, he leapt up from his seat at the table, said he'd been hoodwinked and that if he was wrong at this point he would be further and further from the truth the longer he took the route he was on. I'd never seen anything like it and spent some time settling him down. This was not my doing; it was 100% the work of the Holy Spirit, who directed me to the passage in the first place. Like Miss K, this neighbour has also been in the organisation for 42 years - all his life - but this and other things I'm sharing with him, frequently from Wilbur Lingle's response to the Bible Teach book, are chipping away at the hold the Watchtower has on him and the confidence he has in it. He has composed himself since the "hoodwinked" realisation and seems to have repressed that memory but I'm in it for the long haul. I prayed for the opportunity to share the gospel with him and my prayer was answered with his initiating things. Since the Lord has orchestrated this, I'm inclined that good will come from it.

    I mention this not to hijack the thread but to encourage you to stick with it if you feel the Lord wants you to. If not, call the thing off. If you don't sow seeds of doubt in their minds there may be no one else who does. But make it a matter of prayer. I'd personally love to keep reading and see you make some headway with her/them. If you do continue your "studies" though (sorry, I have to say this again) Lingle's book simply can't be beat.

  • Faithful Witness
    Faithful Witness

    Thank you for all of your helpful insight. I have been reading your comments carefully. There are a few things I am considering, in deciding whether to let her into my home, and into my schedule.

    1. My own priorities for my family and home this summer. I am a busy mom, and have severaly behind on a few things. As the load of the school year schedule is finally beginning to lighten, do I want to add another thing to my to-do list?

    2. Is this what God wants me to do right now? If this is one of the things He wants me to do, then I can make time for it.

    3. Am I letting her bring a demon into my house, as someone suggested to me yesterday at my Bible study group? I have found that Christians in general have little compassion for JW's... BUT, is her appearance at this time in my life, Satan at work, trying to distract me and throw me off course?

    4. Will this help me have talking points for when I see my mom? -- What if I did this with my mom instead? I wonder if my parents would go through the Bible Teach book with my husband and I?

  • punkofnice

    Howdy doody FW.

    A lot to read here.

    My question (that's probably been answered but I missed it ooopsie),

    What is your magnum focus in all of this. What do you wish to achieve from these visitations?

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