Jesus had to die? Really?

by punkofnice 85 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • punkofnice

    I admit I no longer believe in god and holy books.

    Thinking of the made up 'Universal sovereignty®' thing, surely if god existed in the way the holy books describe him then he could have thought of something better than humankind suffering thousands of years and the slaughter of Jesus?

    Couldn't god have said: 'Well, Satan is a very naughty boy but you all know how great I am so we can end it now. I will lovingly kill Satan and his mates and that's that. Peace again. Start over.'


    'I can kill all you lot lovingly and only I'll know and start over.'

    Any thoughts on this?

  • Band on the Run
    Band on the Run

    Christians believe it is good that Jesus died. I heard a Good Friday sermon once about crucifixion, gruesome medical details that impressed me. It is weird b/c you are supposed to be very upset that Jesus was seized and yet the cross emerged from the seizure. If you read The Last Temptation of Christ, Jesus did not die. Should Judas be a Christian hero? I don't see why Jesus had to die because I don't ever see OT prophecy fulfilled by Jesus. Judas gets a bum rap.

    Thinking about this stuff for too long will give you a headache.

  • Jeannette

    It's all rubbish. There is no proof that Jesus even existed. One of the historians said that if Jesus had fed 5000, there would be a record of it because it would be a large percentage of the population and it would have been noticed. I think the name even came from the occult, but that's just my thinking.

  • humbled

    A related idea to your prompt, Punky, came to me as I posted in Snare's thread "A medieval question for you ...if you believe in god..."

    While I was puzzling out a question Snare put out from a 1400s(?) theologian--I recalled the crazy complicated solution that same educated churchman, Thomas Aquinas,figured for Jesus to be born sinless from a sinless woman (of course Daddy J-but-not-Joseph was above reproach). St Tom helped put the finishing touches on the Immaculate Conception dogma.

    It suddenly came to me that the amazing thing that God is supposed to have done to make Mary a perfect, holy vessel for the-son-of-god shouduv,coulduv been done from the get-go----FOR ORDINARY OL' ADAM & EVE!

    That's what you said above, right? God had options. He just was too hateful to pick any of them. His way was the cruelest from any stand point--even not counting the gorey crucifixion of Jesus.

    There has been WAY, WAY too much suffering.

    If I were God, and people stopped believing in me--I'd be sooooo relieved. I'd just tip-toe out the back door and hope nobody remembered I had ever been around.

    Universal Sovereignty. Pretty sick idea. and religion keeps covering for Him.


  • never a jw
    never a jw

    Jesus was not supossed to die, but since he did, Paul needed to re-write the story, even if it made no sense. 2 billion people today buy Paul's version of christianity.

    It reminds me of 1914 being the end of the world, but since it didn't happen Rutherford re-wrote the story, which became Jesus parousia. Today 7 million people buy that story. In theological terms, not much difference between JW's and other christians. They both go for non-sense as long as you can insert the word LOVE somewhere.

  • jam

    Christ volunteered ( I think he volunteered) to bear a punishment

    instead of us, correct. So if God was prepared to let us off, why

    did He not do so??? After four thousand years when Adam miss

    the mark, this is the best that he can do. How many people have died

    doing Jesus day and afterward that didn't know the man (Jesus).

    The day when Jesus died on the Cross, how many folks in the world

    at that time had any idea why he died.

    If Jesus died for our sins, don't you think it would have been easy

    for God to make an announcment too the world.

  • Crazyguy

    Theres way too many similarities in the bible that also are in other cultural writing like the snake, the tree of life, God riding around in the air on a chariot with Cherubs for me to believe. Its true if Jesus did do the things they say he did the Jews would have been all crazy for him not wanting to kill him. It like the story of the jews coming from egypt and being saved then all within a day whining about whats to eat and wanting to go back. Right if there was a cloud by day and a pillar of fire by night showing you god was in your presence you would be scared shitlist and not wanting to do or say anything that would piss him off, yet they were doing just that and in more then one occasion.

    Another thought about Jesus and it was brought out a week ago or so is he was born from a foreign woman in his lineage. according to the bible this would of made him unable to be really the messiah because god had cursed the Medonites for ten generations. So if Jesus did exist he was an Essen and what they taught was very similar to what the Jesus in the bible taught and we can ckock this man up so someone similar to Gondi and Buddha, great men but not gods or sons of gods.

  • jam

    crazyguy; "Its true if Jesus did do the things, wanting to kill him".

    Please, If I was at a dance and they ran out of happy juice and

    a guy turn water into more happy juice, he would be my friend for life.

    What do we have today, faith in things unseen. Let someone part

    the mighty mississippi today with a rod, there would be no other

    religious organzation except the one he is leading.

    But here again God could be testing us by allowing Satan to mislead us. LOL

  • kassad84

    Jesus had to confront everything Satan stands for and has assaulted creation and his Father with. He chose to die and to forgive those who are killing him at that very hour. It's all about principles. Love vs hate. Self sacrifice vs selfishness. Peace vs violence. Even if we dont believe in him, perhaps we can meditate on the works. it applies to everyone.

  • quellycatface

    I have to admit Punky, it's a massive leap of faith.

    I like Kassad84's comment though.

    It all seems a bit unorganized from God's usual works, nature and stuff.

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