Jesus had to die? Really? (page 7)

TTATTelder

This is part of the OP of a thread I started awhile back that ties in with this discussion:

A lot of attention is given to how big the sacrifice was on the part of Jesus and God when Jesus laid down his life. As the story goes, Jesus gave his life for our sins and then was miraculously raised back to life a couple of days later.

Consider this. Normally, when a parent loses a child, the parent doesn't get the child back 3 days later.

I'm not minimizing the weight of having to watch your child die, but isn't the biggest sting of death the permanance of it? I mean would we be nearly as distraught after a loved one died if we were going to see them again before the end of the week?

We had a talk today at our hall, and the speaker said, "Jehovah takes forgiveness seriously... he gave up his son for it."

My first thought was: but he has his son. He didn't give up his son permanently. He wasn't without him even for a week.

Everyone knew the resurrection was coming 3 days later. It was prophesied. Jehovah knew. Jesus knew. I'm assuming everyone in heaven knew. My point is - everyone knew this whole thing was temporary going in.

The whole thing just sounds like a news story that would have this headline:

- Son Gets Tortured, Leads to 3 Day Coma -

It honestly doesn't seem like a storyline that could hold up for thousands of years - strange to me.

Vidiot

moomanchu - "I forget what pub that was in."

You can Life Forever in a Paradise on Earth.

I always had trouble wrapping my head around that one, too.

kassad84

I understand, this has always been foolishness to the Greeks (their learnings just can't allow them to swallow it), and indeed it looks foolish.

In Orthodox Christianity, the goal of man, is not just to be ransomed and saved by Christ's sacrificial death, it is to be more than that. The goal is theosis - the state of being in perfect unity and likeness with God - whether or not we end up in Paradise or Heaven, it doesn't matter; these are only places. Transforming the inner man is the main thing. Didn't Christ say He is the way, the truth, and the life? By endeavouring to follow the way He lived and died and through the help of the Holy Spirit, willing to undergo the necessary suffering such change will ensue , we will slowly die to ourselves and be transformed into the Image that God has always meant for us.

As opposed to being helpless because of inherited sin, we are called actively to take part in our own salvation hand in hand with God.

"work out your salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who is at work in you.."

Again, this looks foolish. It is what it is.

kaik

I really love Terry and DD input into this topic. The Abrahamic religion, which includes Islam and Judaism sees salvation through sacrifices and suffering. It teaches that people as individual and as a collective being needs to suffer to achieve a better, brighter future.

Heaven

Didn't Christ say He is the way, the truth, and the life?

We have no clue what Christ actually said. HE never wrote anything down. What was written down was authored by people who weren't even there from oral stories passed down from generation to generation.

And what about all those people who were born, lived their entire lives, and died before Christ ever came on the scene? What about the populations of this world who have never heard of Jesus and never will?

kassad84

Paul called the saints first fruits. They are to be kings and priests to help transform the rest of creation into the Image that was meant for it all along. (Kings and priests - not to rule as the rulers of this world rule - but to serve and to heal.)

And if they are just first fruits, imagine how the rest of the harvest will be. I think we are underestimating God's love.

"But we ought always to give thanks to God for you, brothers beloved by the Lord, because God chose you as the firstfruits to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth."

2 Thess 2:13

kaik

I always wonder why Jesus was so afraid to die. Why he was not smiling and laughing about his ordeal, telling Pilate and the others to shove it, because when he dies he will be resurrected, go to Heaven and return as a King to kick their butts. I wonder, why he was so scared? This always troubled me. I know it is a natural for human to afraid of death. People who went to execution often collapsed, but there are individuals who were brave like George Danton, Louis XVI, Marie Antoinette, Jan Huss, and did not fear of death. Did Jesus expected to die? Was he afraid to fail his mission?

Viviane

I think we are underestimating God's love.

If God is truly what Christians claim, them love cannot be something he has.

TheWonderofYou

Last Sunday Pope Francesco said:

“Non c’è alcun limite alla misericordia divina offerta a tutti”.

There is no limit for the divine mercy offered to all

punkofnice

....thing is, if it said in the bible: 'God became a piece of string and lay in the road for 3 hours.' there'd be some fundies rationalising why it was true, the meaning of string and so on and so on. It's all just down to confirmation bias.

I await divine favour....so far life's been crap.

Jesus had to die? Really?

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