If she is having sex with you now and she is an active JW, she knows what she is doing is wrong. There are only two outcomes to this...one, she will leave JW's and you will live happily ever after...or two, she get's conscience pangs, confesses her sins, takes her discipline and becomes a "good" JW. The second outcome will not be pleasant for you. She will start to pressure you to convert...and don't be surprised if she starts withholding sex and intimacy as a condition to your complying. Unless she is willing to abandon the JW's, you will be at risk of a tumultuous relationship. The last thing you need is strife and having the kids become a battle ground. I hope things work out for you...
Involved with a JW woman
Okay, so like I said we've gone to and fro about having kids, and listening to the comments here I've pretty much decided I will not allow her to take them to a KH at all. She's very upset, as I knew she would be, and is saying she would rather not have kids at all. This is where she gets very emotional and it's almost impossible to talk to her at all about anything. She cannot think straight about anything, and is just jealous that I have given kids to my ex, but apparently won't give them to her, (even though I will but not allow them to be brought up in her religion). Like a few have said, to knowingly allow kids be any part of this cult is akin to child abuse. I'd never thought of it that way, and I will not stand for that.
I have seem her cult and authentic personalities many times. Whenever we're not talking about religion or anything related she is her authentic self, and when I approach her calmly about religion she 80% of the time is herself. But if ever things get slightly heated or on a subject she's passionate about (trinity and holidays primarly) her cult persona comes out in full force.
Jonza, it sounds as if she is trying to say what you want to hear so as to win you over, but her true feelings surface when either religion or children are being discussed, yes? You are no doubt a wonderful man who deserves a happy future, so please ask yourself:
Do I wish to spend my remaining years with someone who is unable to fully commit to our marriage?
When she pressures me to have children in the future, what will that do to our relationship? Her words might say No Children because of the "no jw" ultimatum, but her actions and reactions say Yes, I want my own kids. She clearly resents that situation now, and you're not even married.
Please make a list of the things that will be recurring issues (worship, children, holidays, birthdays, child support to your ex, donations to the jws, time spent apart for religious activities, etc.). Write down the best-case and worst-case scenarios...put it all down on paper in your own hand. Study that list. Be honest with yourself, for your children, and for the jw woman. This is a life-changing decision, so try as best you can to make it based on facts for we all know that strong emotions can easily make facts forgotten. Then, whatever your decision, at least you will make it with your mind and not just your heart. Make your decision with your eyes wide open.
You've shown wisdom and humility to have come here and read counsel from all of us strangers who, remarkably, have your best interests at heart. Wishing you the best future for you, your children, and for this young woman who is obviously so unsettled in her heart.
As Robert so kindly says, Peace be with you.
Okay, so I've been listening to a few meetings on this channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/JFCongregation/videos are these meetings real? They sound real. I listened to one about babylon the great, and yes that is pretty hard hitting. There's no way I'd let my kids hear how their Dad worships satan/demons and is part of a world wide false religion. I'm so glad I asked this question here, I wish I had a long time ago. I've told my gf this already, and have said there's no way any kids we had would step into a KH. She just says we're not having any then... So given that, should I still move forward with this relationship? I'm sure she will at some point want them, will I be able to keep her from taking them to a KH?
Jonza, I have no doubt that you love this woman, and you have the final choice here, but you are already getting a glimpse of the future. You are only seeing a glimmer of the cult personality. The fact that she has a relationship with you, a "worldly man", convinces me that she feels she can change you once you are married. She has convinced herself that whatever she is doing now will be forgiven after she repents and brings you, a living offering, to the altar of the WT. This is a very tough situation...I would confront it head on. Tell her you will NEVER become a JW, and forbid any children to be raised as JW's...see what her reaction is. I am guessing she will say it is ok, but you will notice "tells" in her body language to the contrary.
Remember the old adage..."Men marry women hoping they will never change, and women marry men hoping they WILL change!"
I've told her many times I will never ever convert. She knows this full well. She knows I am 100% against her religion and yes I have told her I think it's a cult (I know that's not always smart to do but she was able to take it). I've now started to tell her that if we ever have kids they will have nothing to do with her religion. I am happy to educate our kids on what they believe, but only with the aim in mind that they can know what the bible really says and so they can refute it. If she still wants to be with me, and she does, then she has to be aware of the reality of that.
Like you say though, I am concerned she will try and change me once married. But that will not happen. She has already asked me to stop looking into her religion seeing as we're not going to have kids. I said I will never ever stop. I am going into this hoping that she will change, but I have to understand that she may never. I think that that could be a real strain on our relationship, well all of this will be.
A person raised from birth in the JWs has all the cult beliefs stamped in their DNA. If they wake up to TTATT it takes years to deprogram. It's a huge battle to un-install the triggers even after the person is thinking for themselves somewhat. I was in my 30s when I first began studying with the jw and after being away from all of it for quite some time, I have emotional reactions to things and have to work through stuff all over again.
A person like that, who sees the big flaws in the WT, but is still emotionally attached to the way of cult life, may sincerely wish to change and believe that they have. But you cannot wave a magic wand and do away with a lifetime of programming. This lady has been programmed since birth. You are saying you want her to promise not to raise children you may have together in the cult. Even if she does promise that, and really believes that she means it sincerely, your children cannot escape the effects of what is in all the cells of her body and mind. They will take it in with mother's milk. They will absorb it because they are part of her, and the cult programming is wound around and throughout all her being.
If I was in your situation, and felt as if I was already committed to this relationship, I would have a vasectomy before seeing her one more time.
Breaking up is painful but facing reality and learning from others' experiences is the mature way to escape a lifetime of tragedy and sorrow. If you just can't break off from her then the next best thing is never to have any more children - and protect the ones you have from being influenced by this lady. She will not be able to help herself from hurting your kids' feelings. If they are involved with anything her comments will reflect her upbringing and tastes and sense of right and wrong. It will hurt your kids. You will constantly be torn between your loyalty to them and to her.
IF she was to see a professional for deprogramming, that would be a positive step. But I still would not have kids with her, ever. Get some nice pets instead. I admire you very much for seeking help in your decision-making.
I hope you know that your problems are bigger than having children. This GROWN woman is hiding your relationship...she is starting the relationship with lies. Also, if she want to continue her association with the JW org....I hope you know this religion is very time consuming. It's literally their life...and all other things come second (intimate relationships, friendships, children, jobs, recreation, etc.).
My sister and I just had a long discussion about because we were raised JW, we have serious abandonmnet issues. And our parents are/were very loving and provided for us very well. But we always knew that they will let us go immediately if even a thought of choosing not to be Jehovah Witnesses. And yes since I have faded and my sister is disfellowshipped, they always remind us that they cannot have alot of contact with us.
So it's not just the having kids, it's issues that she has right now because of her cult raising that need to be addressed. And believe me they do not go away immediately...I've known that the religion was a cult for the past 15 years and I'm still suffering alot of the residual affects.
Sorry I only read the title of your post, here it is my reaction: RUN, STOP, ARE YOU CRAZY????
I married an active JW after I already had left. I was never df so she and I would still talk since we were best friends since we were about 15. I told her plainly that I would never stop her from going but i would never accept the religion as anything other than another useless religion and a big lie. I would go with her to the meetings just to be with her but if she asked what I thought about it I would not hold back. I wasnt in her face about it but I wouldnt sugar coat anything. After the change in the FDS teaching she realized the BS of it all. I really think she knew that what I was saying was true but she needed that final nail. So she left and since then our marriage has never been better.
In retrospect, what I did was very foolish since there was a big chance that our marriage would have been miserable had she not seen TTATT. I really dont know if we could've lasted, especially after all the changes that have happened since. I dont think I would've even been allowed to go to the new bible revealing party since I am reproved; besides, I cant see myself sitting through meetings much longer.
In a marriage or serious relationship you are seperated by many factors like, for example, work; throw in a religious cult who demands every ounce of extra time and you have a recipe for disaster.
However, if had to take that risk of marrying her I would do it again. I love her and I would rather try and fail than to have never tried. That being said, I would have never considered having children with her if she was still in. In fact, children were off the table back then. Thankfully, now we are trying :).
So my advice is, do what you want but just know exactly what you are getting yourself into and mentally prepare yourself for the uphill battle. Relationships are difficult whether you are a witness or not; Just know that yours might be a little harder than most.