Involved with a JW woman

by jonza 130 Replies latest social relationships

  • jonza

    Okay so I'm dating a born-in JW woman, she's younger than me and has no kids. I'm a Christian man whos divorced with 2 kids. We're in love and seriously want to be together. We also don't live close to each other. She's prepared to move here to be with me. She knows she'll be DF if she moves in with me (I know I'm a sinner and we've not been that wholesome, if you get what I mean) but for now has been keeping me a secret, which has been relatively easy for her to do due to the distance.

    I was originally giving her religion a lot of respect as I didn't really know much about it. As I originally read why JWs believe what they do, and I can see how (but far from agree) they can incorrectly get what they do out of the Bible. But long after we fell in love she started talking abou the UN, and the world powers etc... I got a little freaked out as that's just total none-sense to me, and a dangerous thing to be claiming as 'fact'. So I started researching more about the WT, and saw the bigger picture, along with the false prophesies, mind control etc etc. So now I have concerns about this relationship, though the last thing I want is to lose her. But in anycase, as a result we have argued about religion and have come to a point where we are both reluctant to talk about it.

    I've since read 6 books on this now, and more than that online and feel like I know much more about the religion but I'm trying to find a way forward. Specifically with having kids with her. If religion were not an issue I would more than happily have more kids. I have a hope that she will wake up from this mind control and I believe I do have reason to think that. I got her to admit that they at least used to be false prophets, which I guess is a big deal. I got her to agree that in all likely hood Jesus died on a cross (I'm not interested in debating that with you guys or doctrines at all here, I just want to focus on what she now believes or doesn't). She also had no idea (even after studying for 7 years and being born in) that they claim Jesus is only mediator to the 144K and that he only died for adamic sin. She knows that's not what the Bible teaches and said she's happy to teach any future kids what the Bible really teaches. So I do hope that if she moves to be with me, being DF and further away from her JW family/friends that she will wake up fully. But even after admitting all the above she still sees the WT as the only thing she knows and the best that's out there. Though she has said she will go to church with me now and then.

    The comprimise we've come to with kids is this: I get to take them to 3 meetings a month to my church, and she can take them to the KH the rest of the time. Also teach them about faith not works for salvation, Jesus died on a cross, Jesus the mediator for all and He died for all our sins (and any other things I can prove to her that they're wrong about by showing what the Bible clearly says). Though she wants me to encourage them to go 'preaching' (I think I'll find that hard). But she aslo agreed to let me go through the WT magazines etc and anything that claims about end times/UN/world powers etc BS then we can teach the kids that it's just their guess and not fact at all. She also agreed, that I can give them presents on birthdays and Christmas, but she just won't be a part of it. I'm sort-of mostly happy about all that.

    Something else that makes me more confortable about being with her is that even when I first met her, she disagreed with the WT that only JWs can become saved, she always said that's upto JAH to decide, not them. I liked that a lot when I first met her. She also said, even when she was 'spiritually strong' (now she claims she's not, I guess because she's about to be DF) that she never did more than 2 hours preaching a month and that she never listened to them when it came to not listening to 'bad' music or watch 'bad' TV etc so she never let them control her life really. So she says even when she gets refellowshipped she will just be like that again.

    So my question is, what do you guys who have far more experience and knowledge than me think abou all this? Do you think it's a reasonable comprise? Do you think it can work? Do you think she might wake up? Do you think she may even convert? I know you can't know for sure or make promises but it'd be nice to get others peoples perspectives.

    Thanks :)

  • Frazzled UBM
    Frazzled UBM

    Jonza - I have so much to tell you but I don't have time right now. I am married to a JW - read some of my posts to get my background. The compromises you have agreed sound great but in reality will not work. Most important is not to let your children be exposed to toxic Watchtower indoctination material - its purpose is to generate phobias (which are later used to control and manipulate) before children are old enough to sort fact from fantasy. I am not unhappy with my wife but there are lots of issues and you need to understand them. Send me a PM and I will give you more information. Don't rush into a future with this woman but I am not saying you should ditch her either. But there is a lot to weigh up. All the best Frazzled UBM (Unbelieving Mate) - there are good reasons I am Frazzled

  • Viviane

    You are setting yourself up for an unending nightmare.

  • sir82

    In the words of the knights of Monty Python, when facing the rabbit:

    Run away!!!!

    Seriously, getting involved with a JW, when you are not one and have no plans to become one (good for you), is just setting yourself up for a lifetime of drama, heartache, and headaches.

  • hamsterbait

    You are in "THE JESUS TRAP", what Darrel Ray discusses in his book "Sex and God: How Religion distorts Sexuality". You sound like a classic case. Once the romance becomes less intense, and the sex not as fantastic, usually in a few months there is aconscience crisis, and she will go back to her religion to get her guilt forgiven. Then all the conditions YOU have to fulfil will be laid on the table.

    Look this up, we have seen this situation soooo often here that the events follow an almost monotonously predictable sequence.


  • GrreatTeacher

    A lot of times things change when kids are involved and there is huge pressure to get them involved and indoctrinated while they are young

  • Frazzled UBM
    Frazzled UBM

    jonza - don't be too swayed by the armchair experts making broad generalisations and scare mongering. I saw these comments when I first came to JWN and made some assumptions which caused me to make some mistakes in my dealings with my wife. It is not so black and white. It is not all bad by any stretch but it is challenging. Cheers Fraz

  • ABibleStudent

    Welcome jonza, Unless you and your GF can view and openly discuss Steve Hassan's video Strategic Interactive Approach explained 2003 (1:23:23), run away and find a non-JW, who you love. I know that my advice sucks, but can you imagine your GF believing that she can recruit you into a dangerous cult that will suck out your heart, mind, and soul because she loves the WTBTS more than you.

    I was once in love with a "Spiritually Strong" (non-thinking) JW and I believe that she loved me too. As soon as I did not progress with my second Bible Study (indoctrination) with a brother, she stopped associating with me. She was more afraid of being shunned by her JW family and friends than she was of my loving her unconditionally. If we had gotten married, it would have been a ménage à trois relationship amongst her cult persona, her authentic persona, and myself. I know that you love your GF's authentic persona. How do you feel about her cult persona? Do you think that you can ever get her to critically think for herself? Are you willing to risk your emotional health and financial security on your feelings that you could get your GF to financially think for herself?

    I'm glad that you joined JWN to learn more. Have you visited and yet?

    Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,


  • blondie

    Unless she is convinced they are not the true religion and wants a new life, jws are told that is a great sin to marry a non-jw. The goal will be to get you to become a jw. Be sure you know what that means to be a jw...this is a good place to find out.

  • Apognophos

    Welcome, jonza. I hate to say this, but I have a really bad feeling about this situation.

    Let me make an analogy. All of us JWs have known at least one sister who was inactive or DFed, and during that time she met a non-Witness man. The man professed a certain interest in her religion (which was the only way the sister could agree to marry him). He attended meetings in a desultory kind of way. Not long after their marriage, he would be seen at fewer and fewer meetings. It's pretty obvious what happened, right? He was only as agreeable to the religion as was necessary in order to win her over.

    I think the reverse is happening here. She sounds agreeable to your religious beliefs, and she makes herself out to be a "bad girl", a rebel who isn't like those other Witnesses. But her language indicates she is still strongly indoctrinated. Watching "bad" movies (if she's using the word "bad", that's just one red flag) does not mean she is any bit less indoctrinated with the fear-mongering tactics of her religion.

    The danger here is that she isn't going against her religion for the right reasons, but simply to win you over. We've sometimes used the phrase "ticking time bomb" to describe these people. There are numerous members on here who have had to deal with inactive JW mates who suddenly were revived in their faith and made the home life fractious and stressful: Frazzled UBM, nonjwspouse, jgnat, and many others. Raising kids with such a person is especially dangerous.

    Basically what I'm suggesting is that there is a good chance that she's going to go "full metal Witness" on you at some point. You won't be able to predict it and once it happens, you could be in for years of fighting and stress before the situation is resolved by her leaving the religion (a rare outcome), or by divorce. Sometimes the couple can maintain the peace by not talking about religion, as you have already discovered, but certain issues like child-rearing and medical care will bring the religious chasm to the forefront.

    The fact that she sounds a bit unknowledgeable about the religion is actually making this a bigger danger. All it takes is one elder or (more likely) one super-sister that befriends her and takes her under her wing with the intent to make her "spiritually stronger" (by the way, that phrase is a super-duper alarm bell ringer). There are many surface objections and answers that can be found in the literature to issues like the cross vs. stake. Not to say that these are factually accurate, but the arguments are convincing enough that if someone wants to believe them, they will. Right now she doesn't know these arguments. If she were very knowledgeable about the teachings, there would be a lot less potential for her later having a, "Wait a minute, I didn't know about this counter-argument -- then it is the truth after all!" realization.

    It's not that a JW counter-argument cannot be overcome. It's that the desire to believe comes first, and then the counter-arguments are discovered or introduced by a fellow JW, and she goes running into the organization's arms. At this point you basically have to become a debate expert, amateur psychologist, and Bible scholar in order to win her mind back. So if, some day, anything like anxiety (over raising kids, health issues, etc.) or social pressures (new friends in the congregation) leads to her developing a sudden desire to be a good Witness, you are in for some deep hurting.

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