Involved with a JW woman

by jonza 130 Replies latest social relationships

  • jonza

    hamsterbait: I may have to take a look at that book. That said, most of the time we're not actually together anyway, so it's not like our relationship is built on sex. At it's core we are very good friends, and most of the time we're just video calling. I'm not sure she really feels guilty at all about what she's doing. She just says 'the heart wants what the heart wants, and it's nothing to do with religion'. You see, her mom essentially did the same thing, except she wasn't baptised and he had no prevous kids, but he was a Catholic. Though sadly now, he's converting. So she just sees herself taking after her mom with this, and has no guilt. Her only regret is getting baptized as it was only a few years before we met.

    Frazzled: Your experience is actually what got me to sign up and post here, as I've read a few of your threads and they became even more cautious from the posts.

    GrreatTeacher: I agree and I'm very concerned about that too.

    I am almost tempted to say I don't want kids with her unless I'm sure she'll come out, but that's not what I want at all. She wants kids a lot, and I couldn't do that to her. I've been tempted many times to break up with her to prevent this, but I just can't let her go.

  • villagegirl

    Jonza - Hmm let me see - "not wholesome" "younger than me" I am thinking by decades,

    you are divorced ? Grounds of infidelity ? You don't live near her, so you probably have

    not had any real time with her, but you are in "Love"? If you were to locate these "love"

    feelings would they be located below the belt ? You have children ? I am thinking this will

    be known as "your second marriage" after about two years and your children are all screwed up.

    Yes - she needs to get out of the WT, no the you are not the answer, you are another problem.

  • jonza

    ABibleStudent: Yes, I've read Steven Hassans freedom of mind book, and I've been trying that approach. It's how I got her to admit that they were at least once false prophets. I've also poured over and many many many other sites, videos, articles etc etc. Anything I can get my hands on. I've literally spend 100's of hours doing this.

    blondie:like I said in my previous post, she's more than aware that she'll be in trouble for this but she has no guilt, she loves me and want desperately to be with me. She wants to move in with me right now and it's been my reluctance that's pushing it back.

    She knows 100% what I think about her religion and there's not a single thought in her mind that I would ever convert to become a JW. She even said that if I broke up with her, she wont ever go for another JW to date. She said partly due to their dating policy, but I suspect there's more to it.

    Apognophos: Maan, you make some good points.. I think you maybe right about most of those there. I can totally see a lot of that happening... I need to think seriously about what you said..

  • jonza

    Villagegirl1: I am 8 years older than her. My ex-wife divorced me because she found a new guy during a trial seperation. So yes, because of her infedelity. Yes we find each other attractive. But our relationship is defined by friendship not sex. We are far apart but have met many times in person over the last 2 years. Yes, if I marry her it will be my second marriage. edit: I should also point out we spend about 5 hours every single day just talking on video and have done since the day we met.. so I'm pretty sure we know each other very well.

  • jgnat

    Hi, I'm a Christian married to an exiting JW (finally! Took twelve years). We also participated in pre-marital happiness, which I felt guilty about for a long time but now I think was silly to worry about.

    Promises don't mean much from a Witness that is on the fence. They haven't worked through their feelings about the society; why they stay, where they may be wrong, that there may be a different way to live. One fit of conscience and she could renege on all her promises. After all, she may believe her eternal happiness is on the line.

    BEFORE you confront her on her beliefs again, read Hassan's latest book about cult control. There is an approach that appeals to the natural person you have fallen in love with, and one that reinforces the cult personality. You do not want to alert, scare, or otherwise threaten the cult personality. This is critically important and it will save you YEARS of grief.

    You realize that a Witness attends two meetings a week plus field service? There's also weekend-long conventions and assemblies. That means that the ratio of Church/Kingdom Hall visitation will be 1/4. I predict this sort of schizophrenic schedule will pretty well guarantee that your children will end up hating religion of ALL kinds. MAYBE they can salvage a sense of God's love...if you are lucky.

    So what is your girlfriend's plan? She moves in with you, announces her "sin" to a local hall, gets disfellowshipped, marries you, attends all meetings without speaking to anyone for the next six months minimum (requirement for reinstatement), and get reinstated? Or would she hoodwink the local congregation and pretend to be a new study (also about six months to complete)? She would still have to be married first to get baptized.

    I don't think your children are all screwed up. villagegirl judges first, thinks second.

  • jonza

    jgnat: Yeah, I've read his book, though I will watch the video linked now. I have already made many mistakes about how to approach her, but I think I'm slowly but surely improving. It's hard to keep my cool at times when she is so defensive at times. I see what you mean about the ratios too with church/KHs, but I'm hoping one on one time with kids by me will help overcome that.. but like you say, I don't want them to grow up hating all religion, I would definitely want them to grow up to become real Christians. When we were first starting our relationship the elders found out about me, and they disciplined her, they told her if we got together it would be many many (implied over 10) years before she would be refellowshipped; from that point on she's hid me. So she's not planning on going back to the KH for at least 6 months after she moves, then she will do her 10hours preaching a month to get refellowshipped, then go back to her 2 hours a week preaching that she used to do when 'spiritually strong'

  • jgnat

    So you have a good sense of the rules then?

    1. She cannot be reinstated if she is "living in sin".
    2. Reinstatement demands perfect attendance, sitting in the back, without talking to any Witness, for at least six months. She will not be allowed out in to field service.
    3. If the elders are annoyed, they can postpone reinstatement indefinitely. (The ten year threat).
    4. If she starts in a new KH, is open about being DF'd, the same rules apply. The new elders would ask for a recommendation letter from her former hall. All would be spelled out in that letter.
  • jonza

    jgnat: Yes except I wasn't aware of the letter, but I assumed they would do something like that (I was thinking phone call to her old HK).

  • jgnat

    P.S. This about describes hubby's reinstatement process, which took about three years. Yes, the elders were annoyed. He was assigned EXTRA book study with a long-suffering elder over and above the regular meetings. His requests to be reinstated were turned down many times. He finally switched to a kinder Kingdom Hall "out of district" and was reinstated within six months.

    They were also running out of extra reading to give him.

    Because of hubby's amazing ability to wriggle out of trouble, he was never formally disfellowshipped in the first place. He had a ten year gap before he even began working on reinstatement. So even though he wasn't "approved" he was also free to talk to anyone he wanted. Frankly, I don't think the elders knew quite what to do with him.

    There were consequences also for attending a Kingdom Hall "out of district". He was turned down for car-pooling, for instance. I mean, we were the next Kingdom Hall over! On the dividing line! But rules must be followed.

  • EndofMysteries

    Jonza - it sounds to me like she is lonely and desperate (not meaning she doesn't love you, read on) because many JW's can't find the right person for them in the religion, they either get unhappily married or single until they crack. It sounds like she's concluced to herself instead of being single and going on, she will find a mate outside of the JW faith, get disfellowshipped, then get reinstated and bring him in.

    If she stays in the religion it will be very hard on you. They'll also be arguments on holidays, etc. You may have agreed to do them and she won't but if you both have kids she'll definitely not want hers celebrating holidays.

    If she actually leaves the religion, doesn't believe it anymore, becomes just a christian then things can turn out fine. Sounds like she is looking outside of the religion because nobody right for her there and she is going to get punished but her ultimate plan is finding a mate and bringing them into the religion.

    If you look up the "district convention" for this year, you'll see how they are being taught to put "Family, Marriage, Education, Security, Finances, Health, Etc as SECOND PLACE to the religion". If she stays in, once you are married, everything becomes 2nd place to the religion.

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