by DATA-DOG 387 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
Thanks brainfloss. I am probably conflating the "evil slave" change (which used to I believe ALSO refer to apostates). Good to know that you are still subject to being part of the composite antichrist. I wouldn't want Obama to feel all alone!
Yes they are still mentally diseased......at least in your case. :)
I believe that new PC term is "false apostles." After the "Human Apostate" hate-speech problems the WTBTS experienced, they are trying to tone things down. They won't even say the "evil slave" is a class anymore, but merely a hypothetical state that could never occur to the GB. So really, hypothetical is not the correct term since it implies that something could happen. Like , " Hypothetically, if Kansas had an earthquake..." It has not happened but it could. The WTBTS is basically saying that the "evil slave" can't even happen, it's an impossibility.
DD
Yes they are still mentally diseased......at least in your case. :)
Yes you are no doubt correct ......just not decieved by a family destroying cult who trys to take on the role of Jesus anymore.
thank-goodness
The TRUTH is like a LION.
You don't have to defend it.
Let it LOOSE. It will defend itself.
St. Augustine
A Watcher,
Do you mean actual truth, or "current understanding?"
DD
Problemaddict said:"current understanding of truth". That phrase by and large, is analagous to the word "guess". It is a guess based on what someone THINKS is accurate. "
..Not at all. Is our current understanding of Science and the physical laws of the universe a guess?
" Think for a minute what the phrase "partial truth" really is. Its like saying, I half half of my whole car. Can I drive it? No......I only have half of it. "
..But if only a minor part was missing, and you know where you are going, you could still reach your destination safely. How you made the leap from incomplete to half complete I have no idea.. Then again, I am having trouble following you. You seem a bit unhinged to me.
"It would behoove u DOT to research what the GB used to say about organs....many witnesses refused organs because they were told not to Accept them....the GB even spoke of it as cannibalism. How many witnesses do you think died as a result?"
I'll study that, do you have any references I could put into the cd-rom. No apostate sites please..
"Is it HUMBLE to call everything you do truth"
..Where have the Watchtower made such a claim? They are not infallible, just honest truth seekers who follow Jesus as their Leader. You apostates keep trying to put words into their mouths..
" Moses experienced Jehovahs divine and miraculous involvement. He "spoke for God" in a very direct way. The GB has made VERY CLEAR that they are not prophets.....because truely if they were they would be false prophets yes? So they claim no miraculous guidance "
..Agreed. Nobody today is inspired directly by God. So should nobody teach what is found in the Bible? Without a central body of leadership, how could any decision be reached as to how those in Gods organisation should act? (Remember the decision regarding circumcision made by the 1st century body of older men)
" Is our current understanding of Science and the physical laws of the universe a guess?"
You are mixing two things here. There are physical laws that are proven, they are truths. Then there are theories, some seem more plausible than others, they may or may not be right. The difference is that there are no Scientists claiming to be the "ONLY TRUE SCIENTISTS" and calling others "apostates" or saying they deserve eternal death for questioning or disagreeing with a theory.
DD
DOT,
I will ignore your rude comment. I am at work and sometimes write a bit quickly. I will also not be called an apostate by you sir thank you very much.
You are more than welcome to investigate organ transplants, vaccines, and blood fractions in your CD rom. You will see that they have all been forbidden at one point or another. If someone feels like posting the articles they are more than welcome. I think more could come from you doing your own research. I personally believe blood transfusions should be a conscious matter but that is another topic. Let me know if you would ever like to respectfully discuss it on another thread or a PM. I will answer your comments as best I can and succintly so as not to appear "unhinged".
"Is it HUMBLE to call everything you do truth"
..Where have the Watchtower made such a claim? They are not infallible, just honest truth seekers who follow Jesus as their Leader. You apostates keep trying to put words into their mouths..
I have put no words in their mouths. They refer to their religion as "The Truth". Except it isn't always true by your own admission correct? Nobody is expecting infallibility. That is a strawman arguement. The issue is that they want it both ways. Think about this logically. If you as a group, appoint your own members, have no prophetic "gifts of the spirit", recognize you have been in error in the past and reserve the right to be in error in the future....is it the humble course to REQUIRE your teachings be adhered to under threat of disfellowshipping?
Not at all. Is our current understanding of Science and the physical laws of the universe a guess?
Science and physical laws are tested with scientific theory. This has no bearing on the bible, and more specificall the teachings of one group of people based on their interpretation of the scriptures. The two are not analgous. Current understanding of truth, would perhaps be better expressed in a statement such as "editorial on holy scripture". In that phrase you both recognize the importance of scripture, and that the humans writing about it are editorializing. What do you think about that?
But if only a minor part was missing, and you know where you are going, you could still reach your destination safely. How you made the leap from incomplete to half complete I have no idea
I understand your point. How do you determine what is a minor part? A car smaller parts can be important enough to stop the entire thing from moving. I would not call Organs, vaccines, or blood "minor". Nor would I call disfellowshipping over differences in opinion minor. Nor would I call predictive response doctrinal change that favors consolidation of teaching authority into the hands of 8 men who appoint their own members minor. These are all fairly recent changes in the grand scheme of things. What do you consider minor?
Agreed. Nobody today is inspired directly by God. So should nobody teach what is found in the Bible? Without a central body of leadership, how could any decision be reached as to how those in Gods organisation should act? (Remember the decision regarding circumcision made by the 1st century body of older men)
You made quite the jump here my friend. The GB uses Moses in the analogy to represent going against them. How could you be going against Moses, but Moses isn't really Moses? You follow me? Nobody is saying one should not teach what is in the bible. Without a central body of leadership.....the bible is still the most read and most influential book in history. You suggesting central leadership would leave people "not knowing how to act" is very dangerous. First of all, it discounts scripture itself! The bible has given us plenty on "how to act" wouldn't you say? Also, this removes personal responsability and Christian freedom.
Your understanding of the first century chritians may need to be revisited. The circumcision issue was handled, where the problem originated from. These were men filled with the gifts of the spirit. They let everyone know what was going on, adn their members included the apostles. On the other hand, Paul did not "check in" with a first century governing body. His commision was from Christ. He took personal responsibility, and relied on his fellow Christians. Did Paul do ok without checking in with a governing body? How about the chapters 2-3 in revelation? Individual letters written to each one. No governing body disseminated the information. It was a miraculous vision to John.
There is nothign analgous in scripture to the governing body today. Those taking the lead is one thing, but setting policy that must be firmly adhered to under threat of disfellowshipping, when there is no miraculous intervention of the holy spirit as their was in the first century.....has no precident! On top of that, we don't even know how they appoint one another.
Data dog - Scientists in fact welcome difference in thought based on available evidence that can be verified through scientific method. In watching Bill the Science guys debate with Jon Hamm (was that his name?) They were both asked a question. Basically the question was, what would it take for you to change your mind?
The creationist said essentially nothing would.
Bill said evidence. He said if you found evidence of something that challenged conventional wisdom, then you would change the world and be welcomed! Science would change because of the evidence.
I liked how simple, and what a clear contrast that made between the reasonable, and the unreasonable.
