"However if DATA DOG wishes to debate an vinculum that has no end"
I've struggled with this one, but..
According to Wikipedia, Vinculum is Latin for "bond", "fetter", "chain", or "tie". In context, I think that Heavensgate meant chain, as in a neverending chain, as though there is no conclusion to the question.. I'm stretching here, maybe because I try too hard to understand things, obsessing over them sometimes.. Anyway, now I'm done, I feel exhausted, good night.
Active JW's, can you defend "THE TRUTH?"
by DATA-DOG 387 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
-
defender of truth
-
problemaddict
DOT,
Don't overload on this stuff. My suggestion is to start at what you feel may be foundational to your faith in the religion itself, and determine how you really feel.....not what you are beint told to feel. Perhaps it will be the same, perhaps it won't.
I was once similar to heavensgate. I was a pretty active apologist, and tried to overwhelm otherwise simple arguements with what amounted to philosophical JWisms. There are multiple points of views ona variety of scripture, otherwise there would not be 16K Christian sects and counting.
My personal experience is this. I was an apologist, and someone was very reasonable with me (not very apostate-like), and brought some points of view regarding blood up with me. I fought and fought, but if I was being honest with myself, I could not "defend" my position on blood anymore. Once that was the case, it had me trying to excuse the fact that i could not defend that doctrine.
I have had conversations with CO's, DO's local elders, bethelites, and family that works in foreign branches. ALL of them have used the same arguement when faced with out and out duality or hypocrisy in a teaching. That arguement is paraphrased by me as the following.
Jehovah is using imperfect men, and they will make mistakes. However, to go against them is to go against God, since his son is in firm control. So while they can be wrong, and be forgiven, you will be held accountable for going against Jehovahs annointed.
The divergence was where they were willing to state the above, and give the GB a role I do not believe Jesus intended for them when he said HE has been given ALL authority in heaven and on earth.....I was not. I just saw somethign i thought made sense or a POV i could understand, and another one that I didn't see a goor reason for believing.
Heavengate would try to lump every person here into one catagory. One mode of thinking. That is simply not accurate. People here are all sorts. Some are rude, some are funny, some are crazy....but most importantly everyone has their own viewpoint and it is respected (more or less).
When I first understood blood in a different way, I wanted to shout it from the rooftop! Not to try to get people to follow me, but to perhaps affect change. in fact, i spent alot of time remaining as a teacher in the congregation, to TRY to affect change, instill the need for Christian conscience and personal responsability, and do good with people I cared about. This did not last long. I was villified for speaking against the slave, even though all I did was tell elders I believe they have RESPONSABILITY and not AUTHORITY, and that we should consider the difference.
it was the beginning of the end for me. It was and is a hard road. its been a year since I have gone to meeting. The elders have decided not to contact me and have left me alone (thank goodness), and my wife who stopped going a few months ago has not been reached out to even once. Very interesting. It is a hard road, but one that we chose because we have an infant and another coming, and while we enjoy our lives and family, we didn't want them to believe even in some semantical quai way, that their salvation would be dependant on how closely they followed the dictates of 8 men, witht he threat of disfellowshipping looming if they felt differently.
Thats it.
Keep searching. Be authentic. Be brave. Test out "every inspired utterance".
-
OUTLAW
According to Wikipedia, Vinculum is Latin for "bond", "fetter", "chain", or "tie". In context,
I think that Heavensgate meant chain, as in a neverending chain, as though there is no conclusion to the question.....DOT
The latin definition won`t help heavens gate11 either..
It means:
..to bind
..to tie up
..to imprison
"However if DATA DOG wishes to debate "tying someone up" that has no end"
"However if DATA DOG wishes to debate "Imprisoning Someone" that has no end"
.
The Latin definition of Vinculum makes no more sense,than the English definition..
When it`s used in Heavens Gate11`s post..
He uses words and has no idea what they mean..
.
A Doctor could tell Heavens Gate11 he was Impotent..
Heavens Gate11 would mistake that for being Important..And..
Buy a New Suit so he looked Important..
.
...............The Dr.said.."I`m Impotent!..
..........This New Suit is going to make me.....................
........................Look ImPotent!!..............................................ImPotent..
.......
........................................................................
...OUTLAW -
heavensgate11
This is what I was waiting for. The distorted humor of OUTLAW to prove a point to DOT. The lesson is you can never see things face value without making sure there is no other explanation or option. While outlaw uses Wikipedia to supposedly render his insight. His does it with a blind eye.
There are far more definitions than just the obvious. That’s what this community lacks. Since DATA DOG started the thread and has been in the forefront of the discussion, then I consider him to be the one bending by most part the conversation or group. Since vinculum is generally used in mathematics, it’s also used in anatomy. A piece a tendon that attaches a bone.
So then outlaws humor to me means nothing unless he understood the context and spirit I intended to use the word.
The eyes and mind only see what they want to see. In outlaws case just another poor minded attempt to insult me. To him he is correct to me therefore is not. Looking inside the box or outside is what lacks in human nature when it comes to accepting the truth.
Thus I am prepared, how many of you.
ˈviNGkyələm/ vin·cu·lum
noun
noun: vinculum; plural noun: vincula
- 1 .
Anatomy
a connecting band of tissue, such as that attaching a flexor tendon to the bone of a finger or toe.
- 2 .
Mathematics
a horizontal line drawn over a group of terms in a mathematical expression to indicate that they are to be operated on as a single entity by the preceding or following operator.
mid 17th cent. (in the sense ‘bond, tie’): from Latin, literally ‘bond,’ from vincire ‘bind.’ The term has been used in anatomy since the mid 19th cent.
-
heavensgate11
And yes outlaw, once again for you to see. The word bending instead of binding. never assume you are correct.
-
OUTLAW
This is what I was waiting for. The distorted humor of OUTLAW to prove a point to DOT. The lesson is you can never see things face value without making sure there is no other explanation or option. While outlaw uses Wikipedia to supposedly render his insight. His does it with a blind eye.....Heavens Gate11
So far ..
All Definitions of "Vinculum" put forward,make no sense in your post..
You have`nt made any attempt to show us a definition of "Vinculum",that would make sense in your post..
If there is one..
This your opportunity to show everyone..
Your not as Dumb,as your Posts Look..
....................................................................
...OUTLAW -
OUTLAW
And yes outlaw, once again for you to see. The word bending instead of binding. never assume you are correct.
You could have at least put up that definition..It`s not in your post..I had to go look for it..
To bend from source..
Lets see how that works in your post..
"However if DATA DOG wishes to debate Vinculum (to bend from the Source) that has no end"..
.
Which you haven`t proven..
So far you haven`t proved anything..
Other than I missed one of the Definitions of Vinculum..
That "still" doesn`t Apply to Data-Dog..
..................................................................
...OUTLAW -
RottenRiley
ProblemAddict: This answer they provided you, me and all the Friends is not satisfying, it's very disheartening to have bad men tell you to "Wait on Jehovah" eventually it morph's in to "Wait on Jehovah's Organization to clear this matter up!" meanwhile the friends are suffering from the false doctrine, bad conduct of power starved men and women trying to control their fellow! I witnesses members, people who waited decades for justice only to die a spiritual death of Watchtower size disappointment. The Friends who were waiting for clarification, truth and justice end up leaving the Watchtower because of the lies!
"Jehovah is using imperfect men, and they will make mistakes. However, to go against them is to go against God, since his son is in firm control. So while they can be wrong, and be forgiven, you will be held accountable for going against Jehovahs annointed." -
defender of truth
Heavensgate, thanks for replying so far, and please don't take this the wrong way, but..if you are like this on the ministry, throwing in words nobody understands in a rather unusual way, and then calling them 'fools' because they don't seem to be understanding your long-winded speeches in semi broken English.. You may put people off from talking to you. You have also, once again, completely ignored what I asked you.. in order to squabble over a word, despite the fact I tried to show that you have been at least as insulting to Outlaw time and time again as he has to you.. Just shake the dust off your feet from a pointless fight over a word and move on..
With all that said, can you please answer my questions? I'll repost..
To Heavensgate-James1:13 "When under trial, let no one say: “I am being tried by God.” For with evil things God cannot be tried, nor does he himself try anyone."..Yet you are saying that the Slave has taught things that were incorrect as part of a test from Jehovah. What of people whose lives have been irrevocably altered by some false understandings, or ended in the case of organ transplants? How do you explain that?? Jehovah does not try people with bad things according to James. He has at times in the Bible given a wrong message to a false prophet ((or allowed them to give the wrong message, having studied it)), in order to show them up..But not to true prophets, such as Jeremiah and Moses, has he?
Are you saying that the Faithful Slave has been a false prophet??" -
defender of truth
In case nobody knows what I'm referring to, it is in Ezekiel 14:9. Here is an interesting commentary I found on the verse.."We need to consider all of chapters 13 and 14 to determine why the prophet is deceived..13:1-16. The Lord tells Ezekiel to prophesy against the prophets of Israel. They prophesy through illusions, not visions. What they say does not come true. They claim that what they say comes from God when it does not. They deceive the people, who look to them for guidance. God condemns these prophets...13: 17-23. The Lord tells Ezekiel to prophesy against the women who make up prophecies...... All this has been to provide themselves with a meagre living...If the prophet allows himself to be deceived into prophesying in this case, without the Lord's counsel, the Lord will not prevent the deception from happening. The prophet has caused his own downfall through his own sin and will be destroyed by the Lord...If the people allow themselves to be deceived and do not repent and turn away from their sins, not only the deceivers, but also they themselves will be destroyed...When Ezekiel 14:9 is put into its proper context, one can see that God will deceive no one, but will punish those who deceive others or who allow themselves to be deceived...those church leaders, at any level, who elevate themselves or allow themselves to be elevated and mislead their followers. Some of them do it for personal financial gain. Some of them do it out of pride. Some accept the traditions of their religion without carefully examining the Scriptures and seeking God's will.They are in a position of spiritual leadership and must set the proper example, including seeking forgiveness when they have done wrong. A true leader with the Spirit of God working in him will not mislead his followers. He will recognize his strengths and weaknesses. "
http://tyndalearchive.com/scriptures/www.innvista.com/scriptures/compare/deceived.htm
...OUTLAW