Marriage Consummation - emailed question has me stumped (page 5)

AnneB

There was an article about that! :) Look back to the early to mid-'80's, prior to the end of 1985. The article focused on getting to know the person you were going to marry before the wedding took place. It mentioned asking questions concerning health conditions, etc., and if I remember correctly, even suggested having the other person take a medical exam. At the time I thought it was an odd article; I thought it was written specifically for cases like the one in this post. Sorry I can't be more specific about the article, it's been a long time since I kept track of WT literature.

The conclusion of the matter, all things having been heard, was that once you are married, that's it, even if you didn't know something about the other person that made it impossible to consumate the marriage.

AB

DNCall

Do you know that he was disfellowhipped for adultery? He may have been disfellowshipped for abandonment, which it sounds like this was.

flamegrilled

It's a tricky one. Elders, CO's and service desks have an aversion to this scenario, understandably.

The signing of the papers seals the marriage. There is no way around that. As far as then breaking it for non-con, I have seen situations where the elders breath a sigh of relief if the "performing" spouse just gets it over with with someone else. They may or may not be DF'ed depending on how big of a performance they put on in the JC. A performance is good because then the "annulment" can take place without anyone getting DF'ed. Everyone's a winner! The elders end up feeling justified in doing what they "naturally feel is right" even though the Bible doesn't really make allowance for it in relation to 21st century law.

Apognophos

1) Would the ex-Wife have admitted to never having sex? Or would she have lied out of embarassment or revenge?

2) More likely, the Elders thought he was trying to play the system and didn't believe him. They are enforcers, even if they believed him, if people thought they could just claim they never had sex and get a free pass on remarriage that would be preferable to the status quo of having an affair to get a divorce.

These are good points, Paralipomenon. Because I know of a situation like this, and when the husband would not have sex with the wife, the elders allowed a "scriptural" divorce. However, in that case, they probably realized that the wife was a beard (the guy was clearly not into women).

valkyrie

"In my case many years ago it was my ex-wife who cheated, repeatedly. I wanted nothing more to do with her, so followed all the BS rules the sheep shearers spouted out about not having sex blah, blah, blah. Then after only a couple weeks she went and bitched to them about me not having sex with her and said THAT was why she continued f--king around! I was the one who had their ass hauled before the tribunal for refusing the "marriage due"! She was not DF'd, I was! Some years later after I was RI'd I remarried, and both of us were promptly DF'd, because I had not as the , "innocent mate filed for the divorce, but rather she did." They claimed that as such I was not free as I had not been the one to file. Again, it's all about control and who they like! They make the rules up as they stumble along."

Jaw-droppingly incompetent! No wonder you're a "piztjw"! [Actually, a piztxjw - right?]

RottenRiley

I agree with "designs" assessment, we had this topic come up with judicial committies, the Watchtower wrote us back saying it was "Adultery". Here's the flawed logic used by a traveling brother, when brother jones found his wife had sex with two other ministerial servants, he got drunk that night and she came in and gave him oral sex begging for mercy. The Meeting continued with our Circuit Overseer invovled in this case, he said "Did you really allow her to perform sex on you?" He said "I was drunk, she took advantage of me", CO and elders agreed the brother even though he was drunk has accepted his wife back and could not divorce her without getting disfellowhiped and he was not free to marry. How can we reason with beautiful logic only the Watchtower can provide?

She ended up cheating on this brother, she is currently working on her eight marriage (I swear she is on her eight marriage!) and he is single all screwed up after listening to the Watchtower's views of marriage and life counseling! Her Dad is on Facebook with her Mom having dinner with all these disfellowshiped friends, he was nasty about catching anyone talking to DF'ed people and he is on Facebook with a group of DF'ed people. Only in the Borg!

"Elders were never trained to handle marriage and family issues. DFing was the way to wash blood off the table. Some religions, like the SDA, have actual Pre-Marital counseling for couples and tragedies like this would never happen or be minimized.

adamah

RR said-

Here's the flawed logic used by a traveling brother, when brother jones found his wife had sex with two other ministerial servants, he got drunk that night and she came in and gave him oral sex begging for mercy. The Meeting continued with our Circuit Overseer invovled in this case, he said "Did you really allow her to perform sex on you?" He said "I was drunk, she took advantage of me", CO and elders agreed the brother even though he was drunk has accepted his wife back and could not divorce her without getting disfellowhiped and he was not free to marry.

Sounds like the CO was fishing for a 1st Cor 6:9 violation ("men who submit to homosexual acts") to nail Brother Jones, who avoided the charge by claiming he was drunk and defenseless (like "righteous" drunken Lot was.... Although it sounds like Brother Jones got drunk voluntarily, whereas Lot's daughters schemed to get him drunk by forcing wine down their father's throat against his will, just like Brother Jone's wife forced his.... Eh, never-mind...).

RubaDub

If the elders viewed them walking into their home alone and stayed over 2 hours, then there is the presumption that they had sex.

Rub a Dub

PaintedToeNail

The WTBTS will probably go back to the OT and the example of King David. When he was old and ancient, the Jews found the most beautiful woman in the land, Abishad, and forced her to lay in his 'bosom' to keep him warm. They never had sex. When David died, Abishag was considered as property, chattels, concubine or wife and possesion of her would have laid claim to the throne. Therefore, marriage without sex is still considered marriage before Jehovah...IMHO...

jwfacts

piztjw You suffered terrible injustice. Your experience really sums up the answer to the question, it is not a matter of what the rules are, but whether the elders have it in for you.

For those that doubt the experience, I received it as a completely unsolicited email, from a person wanting to know if they have been properly dealt with according to Watchtower rules. They have nothing to gain from the story, nor asked me to post it, so I see no reason for him to have embellished the details, though he may not have known the real reason they disfellowshipped him.

PaintedToeNail - Abishag Was that on purpose or a faux pas?

Marriage Consummation - emailed question has me stumped

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