NASA Identifies The Hand of God

by Perry 92 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

Perry

We think we know everything and can figure it all out... how far can we actually be from the painfull truth: we are just species... we live... we sleep, eat, drink, have sex and after a period of time we die. Game over...

Not true DeWanderlaar..... just another Watchtower lie from the pits of hell. We are different than the animals. We alone were made in the image of an eternal God. Our soul is eternal and will exist in one state or another for eternity. To be separated from God is to be separated from every conceivable notion of good and love, since God is good and is Love.

Note:

Without a doubt the human soul is immortal. This is clearly seen in many Scriptures in both the Old and New Testaments: Psalm 22:26 ; 23:6 ; 49:7-9 ; Ecclesiastes 12:7 ; Daniel 12:2-3 ; Matthew 25:46 ; and 1 Corinthians 15:12-19 . Daniel 12:2 says, “Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.” Similarly, Jesus Himself said that the wicked “will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life” ( Matthew 25:46 ). With the same Greek word used to refer to both “punishment” and “life,” it is clear that both the wicked and the righteous have an eternal/immortal soul. Read more:http://www.gotquestions.org/human-soul-mortal-immortal.html#ixzz2qZIkcpEn
punkofnice

1) You cannot prove that God does not exist, so He does.(Burden of Proof Fallacy)

2) There is currently no explanation for this, so God did it (Argument from incredulity fallacy)

3) God exists because the bible/qu’ran/torah says it’s the word of said “on true God” /bible, torah, qu’ran quotes (Circular Reasoning Fallacy)

4) Many people believe God exists so he does (Appeal to belief Fallacy)

5) The bible makes me feel good, so it is true (Appeal to Consequences of a belief Fallacy)

6) I had a personal encounter with God, so it is true (Anecdotal Evidence- Jews and Muslims do as well)

7) I prayed to God and I was cured (Post hoc ergo proptor fallacy)

8) Ontological* Argument (Fallacy of Misplaced Concreteness)

*Because we think something perfect can exist it therefore does exist. Also Existence is wonderful. God is wonderful therefore God has existence.

9) Bible prophecies (Circular Reasoning Fallacy+Red Herring Fallacy+ Self-fulfilling Fallacy+Composition Fallacy+Equivocation)

10) *ignores argument * Argues about something else (Red Herring Fallacy)

11) *ignores argument * You don’t believe in God because you’re dumb, atheist! (Personal Attacks Fallacy 'ad hominem')

12) This is all just lies and slander as expected from an atheist (Genetic Fallacy 'ad hominem')
notsurewheretogo

Haven't seen this poster "Perry" before but he has a lot of posts and joined years ago...

Seems he has jumped out of the frying pan into the fire in leaving the WT and ending up believing some more crazy sh1t...

When I left the WT it was because simply of two things...they are not God's Channel today and more importantly the bible is full of sh1t...the flood could not have occured ergo the bible is a book written by man...

The natural conclusion that I've seen as a pattern to most JW's who "wake up" is that they conclude there is no god...

Until I see evidence otherwise I have to stick to that...
AndDontCallMeShirley

Perry: just another Watchtower lie from the pits of hell.

---

A lie, by your admission, you at one time fully believed as absolute truth when you were a JW. And, I'm sure argued just as stubbornly in favor of to anyone who questioned it.

Now, you believe something else....and have convinced yourself your current belief du jour is absolutely true.

That's the problem with basing your beliefs on things that cannot be proven....they are subject to constant change, one being no more true than the other...but convincing yourself that your current belief is indisputable.
Perry

1) You cannot prove that God does not exist, so He does.(Burden of Proof Fallacy)

Proof is everwhere, from the "Hand of God" to billions of tighly packed information bits found in the DNA to the living cell's hundreds of irreducible complex parts.

2) There is currently no explanation for this, so God did it (Argument from incredulity fallacy)

There is an explanation. Rather, truth be told, there is not reasonable scientific explanation how this design just appeared.

3) God exists because the bible/qu’ran/torah says it’s the word of said “on true God” /bible, torah, qu’ran quotes (Circular Reasoning Fallacy)

Wrong. There is no "because" , in other words no previous "cause". He is the First Cause which is reasonable to deduce.

4) Many people believe God exists so he does (Appeal to belief Fallacy)

See above.

5) The bible makes me feel good, so it is true (Appeal to Consequences of a belief Fallacy)

The bible does not make me feel good at all. I cannot participate in my own salvation. This insults my pride. Jesus said I must give up everything to get everything, this insults my sensibilities, He says his saved are children, brothers, but also slaves, this upsets my notions of freedom until I compare Christian "freedom" with slavery to sin, vice and death.

6) I had a personal encounter with God, so it is true (Anecdotal Evidence- Jews and Muslims do as well)

Personal testimony is high quality evidene if it is from a credible witness. 40% to 60 % of all Muslim converts to Christianity are doing so because of personal encounters with God through dreams.

7) I prayed to God and I was cured (Post hoc ergo proptor fallacy)

Unless of course its true.

8) Ontological* Argument (Fallacy of Misplaced Concreteness)

*Because we think something perfect can exist it therefore does exist. Also Existence is wonderful. God is wonderful therefore God has existence.

Unless of course he inhabits believers and they can feel his presence inside them. Then, it isn't just "thinking"

9) Bible prophecies (Circular Reasoning Fallacy+Red Herring Fallacy+ Self-fulfilling Fallacy+Composition Fallacy+Equivocation)

Fulfilled Bible Prophecies are powerful evidence.

10) *ignores argument * Argues about something else (Red Herring Fallacy)

Christians are not saying that they can out argue someone on whether or not God exists. They KNOW he does because he lives inside them.

11) *ignores argument * You don’t believe in God because you’re dumb, atheist! (Personal Attacks Fallacy 'ad hominem')

Not dumb. God's existence implies accountability, judgment. This is scary stuff. However, the good news is that there is nothing that you can do to improve your situation as someone who will face judgment one day. It has already been provided for you. If you receive him.

12) This is all just lies and slander as expected from an atheist (Genetic Fallacy 'ad hominem')

Mostly just well-founded fear disguised as logic.
THE GLADIATOR

notsurewheretogo Haven't seen this poster "Perry" before but he has a lot of posts and joined years ago...

Yes, he has made the classic mistake of tunneling through his prison wall into the next cell.
Perry

That's the problem with basing your beliefs on things that cannot be proven

This is not the Christian argument. This Christian argument is this: Jesus is alive, he lives inside me once I accepted his pardon (and by necessity the need for it). He produces proven, tangible results in my life NOW. I posess a KNOWING not only of God's existence but of unending life with him.

I spent 8 years as a true blue witness; and now about the same amount of time as a born-again Christian. I can truthfully compare both and state that they have zero in common with one another. They are as far apart as death is from life.
punkofnice

Perry. I admire your faith. When I left the WBT$ I went to church and found it really uplifting. Times change and I did too. Just picking a couple of things you said (sorry, I am at work and sneaking on here), I have questions.

Proof is everwhere, from the "Hand of God" to billions of tighly packed information bits found in the DNA to the living cell's hundreds of irreducible complex parts.

I'm not being argumentative but would like to respectfully ask: Which God...and why that particular one?

DNA doesn't prove god exists, it just proves DNA exists. It doesn't naturally lead to the God of the Bible any more than it leads to the Koran or Scientology.

Personal testimony is high quality evidene if it is from a credible witness. 40% to 60 % of all Muslim converts to Christianity are doing so because of personal encounters with God through dreams.

Er......sorry, but this sounds a little weird. Personal testimony and dreams....er.......sorry...........how can what a person tells you they experienced, that you didn't experience with them, or see them experience it, be evidence?

Just by way of clarification......what do you make of this?

“A fire-breathing dragon lives in my garage.”

Suppose … I seriously make such an assertion to you. Surely you’d want to check it out, see for yourself….

“Show me,” you say. I lead you to my garage. You look inside and see a ladder, empty paint cans, an old tricycle—but no dragon.

“Where’s the dragon?” you ask.

“Oh, she’s right here,” I reply, waving vaguely. “I neglected to mention that she’s an invisible dragon.”

You propose spreading flour on the floor of the garage to capture the dragon’s footprints.

“Good idea,” I say, “but this dragon floats in the air.”

Then you’ll use an infrared sensor to detect the invisible fire.

“Good idea, but the invisible fire is also heatless.”

You’ll spray-paint the dragon and make her visible.

“Good idea, except she’s an incorporeal dragon and the paint won’t stick.”

And so on. I counter every physical test you propose with a special explanation of why it won’t work.

Now, what’s the difference between an invisible, incorporeal, floating dragon who spits heatless fire and no dragon at all? If there’s no way to disprove my contention, no conceivable experiment that would count against it, what does it mean to say that my dragon exists? Your inability to invalidate my hypothesis is not at all the same thing as proving it is true. Claims that cannot be tested, assertions immune to disproof are veridically worthless, whatever value they may have in inspiring us or in exciting our sense of wonder. What I’m asking you do comes down to believing, in the absence of evidence, on my say-so.

The only thing you’ve really learned from my insistence that there’s a dragon in my garage is that something funny is going on inside my head. You’d wonder, if no physical tests apply, what convinced me. The possibility that it was a dream or a hallucination would certainly enter your mind. But then why am I taking it so seriously? Maybe I need help. At the least, maybe I’ve seriously underestimated human fallibility….

Now another scenario: Suppose it’s not just me. Suppose that several people of your acquaintance, including people who you’re pretty sure don’t know each other, all tell you they have dragons in their garages—but in every case the evidence is maddeningly elusive. All of us admit we’re disturbed at being gripped by so odd a conviction so ill-supported by the physical evidence. None of us is a lunatic. We speculate about what it would mean if invisible dragons were really hiding out in garages all over the world, with us humans just catching on. I’d rather it not be true, I tell you. But maybe all those ancient European and Chinese myths about dragons weren’t myths after all…

Gratifyingly, some dragon-size footprints in the flour are now reported. But they’re never made when a skeptic is looking. An alternative explanation presents itself: On close examination it seems clear that the footprints could have been faked. Another dragon enthusiast shows up with a burnt finger and attributes it to a rare physical manifestation of the dragon’s fiery breath. But again, other possibilities exist. We understand that there are other ways to burn fingers besides the breath of invisible dragons. Such “evidence”—no matter how important the dragon advocates consider it—is far from compelling. Once again, the only sensible approach is tentatively to reject the dragon hypothesis, to be open to future data, and to wonder what the cause might be that so many apparently sane and sober people share the same strange delusion.

—Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World
AndDontCallMeShirley

Perry: I posess a KNOWING

I'm not attacking your beliefs- you have a right to believe whatever you like. However, when you are trying to convince someone else that what you say is true, you must now come up with something else: EVIDENCE.

"knowing" is not evidence.

Throughout history many people absolutely knew/believed the earth was flat. "Knowing" that didn't make it true, and when real evidence was offered to debunk that belief, "knowing" was no longer a valid argument (incidentally, hardcore Muslims still believe the earth is flat...because the Koran says so).

Historically, religion tends to get in the way of common sense...
DeWandelaar

Not true DeWanderlaar..... just another Watchtower lie from the pits of hell. We are different than the animals. We alone were made in the image of an eternal God. Our soul is eternal and will exist in one state or another for eternity. To be separated from God is to be separated from every conceivable notion of good and love, since God is good and is Love.

WTS does not teach we are not different so that statement is not true. The image and eternal part of your reason is based on a book that is written by other men (bible, koran etc). These things are not proof and no claim that you make can be backed up from our part of the spectrum.

Also... I was talking about theism... I do not deny that there probably is a God... I am just saying that if he is there he does not have part on anything that is happening or will not prevent things to happen to us. If we look from a universal point of view it does not matter that humans are being annihilated and the planet is being destroyed. We (earth) are just one tiny spot in a very big universe... do you really think that of ALL these small little marbles in that very very very big universe this earth gets all the attention and especially the even smaller inhabitants? The idea is stupendous and outragious if you come to think of it...

NASA Identifies The Hand of God

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