by excaliber 116 Replies latest jw friends
Are you going to shun everybody who won't participate?
Really, I can't tell the moral difference between calls to action to bring down the watchtower, and exhortations to go out in field service more to "present a witness to the world."
The world needs less fanaticism, not more.
I usually just lurk But here's the thing
there are ways to tell JWs TTATT in settings were they cant get away, they would HAVE to listen. And it would not involve anything illegal.
^^
This is a description of any JW born-in's childhood. It is a description of a captive unwilling audience. Replace TTATT with "truth" and you get a dyed in the wool JW who righteously knocks on doors to bring "truth". Why would I participate in method that is my main criticism of the organization in question. I'm not at war. I have no desire to take down the Watchtower or to convert it's members only to comfort and help those wishing to leave.
If i had a lot of money i would hire people to use the internet in every possible way to expose the WT. There are ways to make it that if any body searches or does anything related to certain key words, pop ups and other things will happen to help expose that person to what you want. It would be great if they even mentioned WT or a bible related term or subject, that information would be made available to them to expose the WT for what it really is. But I'm sure this would cost alot of money...
Adamah, this is not schizophrenia or delusions of grandeur.... no one asked to be appointed chief overlord of the apostates.... if anyone has mental struggles, you like most of us no doubt suffer from some degree of depression, anxiety, [insert condition here], as a result of living in a cult.
The problem is most people just don't want to make the effort. It's nothing to do with being young and naive that causes zeal. In America, people seem rather uninclined to take action. In France, if people don't like the fuel prices, they burn the petrol station. If they don't like the speed cameras, they drill a whole in the back and put a firework in there. This is the place that had the French resistance that fought back even when overwhelmed by the Nazis, and yes, I'm sure there were those that said they couldn't face the financial odds and numbers and structure of the Governing Body.... I mean Third Reich.... but a few people were not such cowards, and that brave few made a sacrifice for the rest of you, lazy armchair rebels.
Maybe some of you didn't get on in the organisation, because you hate anyone telling you what to do? I will assume it's that we are all very nervous of an organisation after being systemically abused by one. However, we need to stop thinking any form of organisation is bad - this is PTSD talking, it's something we need to overcome, to trust again. Every aspect of life needs organisation and authority, i.e. the guys that collect refuse, even they need a rota to know which dustbins to empty when. The basic family is an organisation with parents directing kids.
We are not here promoting some centralised, high-control structure. This needs to be appreciated - no one said to make a new cult, and not all organisations are cults! What here is being discussed is a loose, federal structure, where no one is in charge. That means, people remain individuals, free to do as they wish. BUT what unites us would be a common goal, not a common leader. How we achieve that goal is varied, open to suggestion.
I think the phrases like "war on the Watchtower" and "bringing it down"... the so-called "Vast Apostate Army" excite, but give the wrong idea. We are not looking to bomb Bethel. We just want to help those who were once trapped like we are - rather like if you escaped a concentration camp, you want to rescue the others, even if they had developed Stockholm Syndrome and wanted to stay. Where is your empathy? Or will you be like some fortunate person who gets a good job, works their way out the gutter, but leaves their family and friends behind?
We can't force anyone not to be a JW, of course, and suggesting such is just an excuse not to help. More the idea is to help people overcome the brainwash - we have been there, it's so entrenched you can't think. Even if you can, there are family pressures, guilt, confusion, and the major problem of not knowing how to survive without the cult to lean on, to run to so as to hide from the pressures and stresses of the real world. We can help people! There is a lot of anger, a lot of people wanted to get back at the WT for their experiences, but few acknowledging that a lot of WT's crazy ideas are from so closely following the Bible, which contains some wonderful moral principles but also a lot of whacky out-of-date ideas. What people need to avoid is not simply the WT, but such high-control organisations, be it JW, scientology, Amish, whatever.... even mainstream churches skin the poor alive for money collections while the Pope lives like an ancient emperor.
I don't see it as stupid, naive, or young, to want to make other people aware that they are not at fault to feel confused in the organisation. If you think this site is the answer to it, why don't you promote the forum? You don't. Nobody knows it's here.
If you think people only join cults because it's some perverse need in nature, and whatever happens, they will find some cult, even if WT ended, well yes you are right, so what we need to do is help people cope without joining a cult! A movement to discourage cults fullstop - get people out and warn them from being preyed on, suggest alternate coping methods. There are lots of vulnerable, lonely people are there who are being called on by JWs, tripping over the magazine stands on the streets, but never saw what's on this site, and if they come here, all they will see is are angry posts about WT, and may think we are bitter.
There a JWs who want out but don't really know how the world works outside, with gaining education, etc. - we could be providing information.
I don't see removing the world of cults as easily achievable, people always want a god to save them, but we can:
A) Warn people of the dangers
B) Help those in who want to leave
You can say nothing will be achieved, then men like Darwin wasted time - look at how the churches lost power. Ironically, the Watchtower had a part of play in that. If we made some small effort to educate people of the dangers, they may avoid them, the cults may have less power. Look at North Korea and how everyone is brainwashed, then look at other countries and see how different they are. Education!! The born-in JWs grew up in a North Korea and need enlightenment, but it's difficult, even traumatic when your whole world comes tumbling down overnight and you don't understand the new one.
Believe me, if you're NOT Jesus...O nevermind...*sigh*
love michelle
I would personally tend to side with those who want to take organized action against the Watchtower, except that (1) I'm actually an active Witness; I haven't even faded yet, much less have I come out of the closet as an "apostate", and (2) I am not in favor of cornering JWs and shoving TTATT down their throats. I would favor a more compassionate, approachable, passive kind of organization -- and frankly, I think this already exists in the forum and on sites like JWFacts.
I do think that, as others have stated, on this forum you are definitely going to find a general anti-organization bias. These are people who were hurt by an unloving organization (most of them much more so than myself) and now harbor animosity towards organizations. Despite the fact that many ex-JWs go agnostic or atheist after leaving, you'll still have a much easier time finding ex-JWs who are Christian (but in a non-denominational way) than ex-JWs who have any interest in joining groups. So it really is like herding cats.
wagging war not my cup of tea - but there are a lot of little things that have been done and little comments said that HAVE promptent others to think and escape... reasoning from the real world ;)
But one of my random thoughts : if we picked one congragation at random - some podunk off the grid tiny hall and thousands of letters showed up, think of the mass hysteria in that little cong it would cause. At bethal they have a mail room and a "junk" system. Can you imagine a mail truck puling up to the local KH? Quick Call Bethal!! - it would throw them off there game for a second. every month a new hall - ;)
ekruks, you word things better then I do. I agree with what you are saying. .... Perhaps war was not the best choice of words.
I would never shun anyone for not wanting to join, I honestly respect everyone and there views.I Am just one in a vast sea of ex cult members, my individual opinion is not above anyone else's here. Do what you feel in your heart is right, I will not pass judgement, we have all had enough of that.
But as for me.... I will not forget ..i will not forgive.... I will not give up even if I have to join anonymous myself!
I will do everything humanly possible to fight agaist these men that get rich of other peoples desire to serve god....or die trying.
You keep mentioning Anonymous: you've gotta realize that JWN has witnessed many who've made the same claims of Anon getting involved to hack into WT servers, even breathless posts claiming to having gotten a hold of a WT pedophile list (of course, they claimed it was encrypted), etc. Then there was the time when someone made a YouTube video wearing a Guy Falkes mask saying how the WT should be very concerned, since Anon is coming for them. Search the archives for "Anon pedophile" to confirm for yourself.
At the time, the majority of JWN members realized they were being trolled by a few drama queens for their own glorification, and most understood that Anon is NOT a well-defined group, but individuals who (at least at the time) had the ability to cast shadows to appear to be much bigger than they really are. FBI has cracked down on them, and they've been decimated, with their 'leaders' in prison now with agents infiltrated making it insane to trust anyone who claims to be involved with them.
Of course, all the shenanigans came to nothing but a bunch of pranksters engaging in pathetic efforts that only lived up to the GB's descriptions of apostates as being sad and lonely individuals who are willing to lie to vent spleens...
I wouldn't be surprised if these individuals were misguided JWs who thought they were helping the GB by playing the charactured role of an apostate, but then I generally don't waste time engaging in such conspiratorial nut-job thinking.
