Soon to be 18 and quit speaking to her mother- suggestions?

by Sanysfriend 95 Replies latest members private

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  coppersgirl67

  Billy you said Many of my worst mistakes have been to trust people that really only care about themselves. The important thing is that having you and your sister and brother were never mistakes. I never want you to be mistreated by people that will use the Bible and hateful words to destroy your spirit. I don't want you to suffer like my mother did. When you say "the light is getting brighter", I don't want you to suffer because you trusted in any instructions that are suddenly discarded and replaced with new light."

  At this point I feel that my only stance is to simply reinforce my love for her, remind her that I learned a lot in life as I got older and that I am always here for her unconditionally. I guess there are no real magic words to help her see the light at this point. I would like to instill some guilt in her at times and don't know if that is right or not. I would like to remind her that she promised she would never do this when she saw my devestation after Heather did so, I would also like to have her sit and explain to her little brother that she will no longer be spending weekends or any time with us as a family, I would even like to warn her that at one time I would have drank the coolaid if handed down and would have given it to her sister first! But, not sure that these tactics will do anything but more hurt and harm. I have written a lot of scriptures down to point out that DFing in the sense that JW's do it is just wrong and not a biblical teaching as they claim.

  I probably won't know until I actually see her again. In one way I am terrified to and others I just don't want to go through the pain of having her stand up and still say that she is leaving me. Of all times when I had my older daughter Heather for her last visit we wound up watching 2 dogs that my roomate had found and one mauled the other to death during our very last hour ever spent together...talk about emotional and I just felt my heart ripping out in the same way. I just don't know if I am strong enough to go through it again.

  My boyfriend wants us to visit the KH and see just exactly what they are all about and tell anyone that would speak to him where they can shove their crap lol.....doubt that is a good idea either but I understand hi anger. I also point out to my girls that no one would want to be a JW with the hate that they show...especially when they deem themselves the true organization and brotherly love on the earth today....
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  coppersgirl67

  jgnat....I have tried to open the site you posted above but computer issues are preventing me from doing so....hope to get on soon and check it out.

  Robert I have filled out one of the forms from Steve's site but no response also I didn't realize that it cost money and at this point I am broke as can be unfortunately.

  Obviously my emotions are getting the better of me today and realize the advise you are both giving me and see that it is important that I NOT turn it into a angry tirade or pity party with my daughter. And I will continue to learn the best way to deal with my last visit or two with my daughter. She appears to clam up and not wish to talk or then gets upset and just wants to leave whenever we have had an emotional conversation regarding this. She is like me and neither of us like confrontation what so ever!
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  ABibleStudent

  coppersgirl67 - Obviously my emotions are getting the better of me today and realize the advise you are both giving me and see that it is important that I NOT turn it into a angry tirade or pity party with my daughter. And I will continue to learn the best way to deal with my last visit or two with my daughter. She appears to clam up and not wish to talk or then gets upset and just wants to leave whenever we have had an emotional conversation regarding this. She is like me and neither of us like confrontation what so ever!

  Hi coppersgirl67, Showing your anger and frustration to your daughter(s) will not help your relationship, nor ever visiting a KH to lamblast JWs. I know that your situation SUCKS, but it will SUCK a lot more if you say anything that your daughter's cult persona can interpret as being bad about the WTBTS to your daughter(s). On the other hand, I do not see any problems with you telling your daughters that they can see their little brother and you in the future as a package deal and not just their little brother.

  You are running a marathon and not a sprint, so do what you need to do to help yourself first and then your daughters. Changing how you view your daughters as having cult personas and authentic personas will help you a lot. Your best ally is your daughters' authentic personas, so keep on showing them unconditional love, inviting them to family get togethers, and writing to them and showing them pictures of you enjoying life. Your worst enemy is their cult personas.

  Also, learn how to use Steve Hassan's methods, learn to ask simple questions to help your daughters to critically think for themselves instead of telling them what to think, research the WTBTS's doctrines and history so that you are prepared to ask the right questions, go out and enjoy life to maintain a balanced outlook, and vent on JWN as much as possible so that you do not damage your relationship with your friends and family.

  Peace be with you and everyonne, who you love,

  Robert
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  jgnat

  You are a wise woman and you are doing lots of right things. If you absolutely cannot bear a "last visit", perhaps cancel and say why. Mothers have a bad habit of putting themselves last and if they are not careful, it can land them right in to a sanatorium for a little rest. I'd rather you stay healthy and happy. Consider it, anyways.

  I do think your great man can visit a hall and unload, just not at a local Kingdom Hall. Pick one across town where you won't know anyone.
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  lisaBObeesa

  My two cents that may or may not be of any use...

  When questioned, just say that you really honestly believe you are doing the right thing and that your conscience won't allow you to go back.

  It is against your conscience. You just can't do what you know is wrong, even for your daughter.

  You've done your research and/or you know in your heart that (insert something JWs do that is unloving) is wrong and you can't be a part of it. You can't compromise.

  You are also very close to Jehovah now and you talk with Him every day and HE knows you are doing your very best to follow His commands.

  Tell your daughter not to worry about you because Jehovah reads hearts and He knows you are doing what you honestly believe is right.

  There is simply no JW answer for that.

  Don't explain why the JWs are wrong. Don't tell her she should leave the JWs. If she asks if you want her to leave the JWs, DON'T SAY YES.

  Instead, only say you want her to always do her own objective research about the Bible using research from both inside and outside the jws (because that is the only way to do objective research) and to always listen to and follow her own God-given conscience.

  If she asks about details of your beliefs on (whatever it was you used as an example of why your concience won't let you be a JW), just tell her your beliefs again and that as for the details she will have to do her own objective research looking in the publications AND OUTSIDE the publications, and at that time make up her own mind what she believes is really right or wrong. You don't want to try to sway her one way or the other. It is totally up to her to do her own research and decide for herself. You believe what you believe based on your own brain/research/ your own conscience, and you are 100% confident in your conclusions, because you took your time and was very careful and really looked at all sides and weighed all evidence and prayed for Jehovah's guidance. She will have to decide what she believes the same way.

  Tell her you are not trying to get her to leave the JWs, that you want her follow whatever religion she believes in, based on objective research and her conscience. She knows what is loving and what is kind. And ask her to please not shun you for doing what you think is right. YOu have no choice but to do what is right and to follow your conscience.

  Tell her Jehovah knows your heart and He gave you this conscience and you must follow it.

  This line of reasoning can't be argued with by a JW because it is their own line of reasoning, and it is TRUE. Using it will create cognitive dissonance. Your daughter may still argue what can't be argued. You daughter may still shun you. But as she shuns you, she will have to be breaking some of her own rules about right and wrong, and hopefully it will be very uncomfortable for her. Hopefully over the long term it will help her to realize there is something wrong with what she is doing....

  Remember, don't attack her faith.

  Good luck.

  (my mom is in a situation like yours, but she had no chance to plant any seeds...)
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  coppersgirl67

  Robert I do agree when you stated "Your best ally is your daughters' authentic personas, so keep on showing them unconditional love, inviting them to family get togethers, and writing to them and showing them pictures of you enjoying life. Your worst enemy is their cult personas." I am trying my best to do so and as a Bible Student brought out I have let her know that my conscience does not allow me to be a judge of others or unloving to those that choose their own path. After all I believe in Christ's law of love and also the same freedom of religion that JWs fight so hard for all over the world.

  The sad thing is that i am completely cut off from my older daughter so no way to reason there, and this is what Sierra says she will do as well. How do you reason or bring up questions when you do not see them. I am afraid to bring up too much because I do send my oldest one a I love you from time to time but afraid if I inundate her with too much she will simply changer her number and I do not even know where her and her husband live.

  Sierra just told me she is going to come and see me tuesday and my heart is about to pound right out of my chest!!! Going to show her some of our old videos when she was little and how lovingly she was cared for. Shopping, lunch and maybe a movie just to keep my mouth shut. At the goodbye part I will try to bring a couple points out...primarily wish to give her a couple questions regarding Dfing and how Jesus never did such. Also consider asking her if she would ever consider being a mormon or scientologist and if not why? Then possibly making a couple of comparisons of them and the WTS.

  I have often told Sierra I want her to find her own path and that is what God wants for each of us and that I will respect any decision she makes....I simply do not want to be cut off and if she does so she is cutting the only person off in her life that would love her unconditionally on any issue or decision that she may make in life.

  jgnat thank you so much for your loving kindness....I am worried about my mental well being as well...I actually went to hospital for 3 days when I was first df and did not have a soul in the universe to talk to....it is sickening the pain that they will cause an individual and no empathy whatsoever for them either. I cnnot and will not inflict that on anyone....as the bible says we must love even our enemies. All I can do on earth is try to show love to all as Jesus exemplified and for the many wonderful friends that I now have many have stated that I have an extra sense about me and loving attitude towards others and life events. I am thankful to have learned to be that person however, at times I wonder how long I can endure lol.

  I am blessed to have you all helping me and don't know what I would do without your advice and loving concern!
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  Billy the Ex-Bethelite

  As I give this more thought, I wonder about your daughter's situation.

  I don't mean to make excuses for her, but I wouldn't be surprised if she's being completely manipulated. I think the rest of the family has put her in a "hostage negotiation" kind of place. I suspect that the JW family and friends have given her an ultimatum: If she doesn't completely shun you, then THEY will completely shun HER! That is exactly how the WT tactic works. If a JW associates with someone DFd, then they get DFd too!

  Your daughter has seen exactly how the shunning operates by the way YOU have been treated by her sister, your father, ex-husband, and ex-friend. I really wouldn't be surprised if she's been given an ultimatum that she has to choose either you or them. And it isn't enough that THEY are threatening to destroy the life she's built around the JWs, they use weasel words to pretend that what they are doing is for the best. They claim that it's what god wants.

  And I wonder what will happen a few months after she's begun to shun you. Your JW family sounds like the type that need to have drama. In one congregation I was in, it was total drama. For example, there was a sister that battled tooth-and-nail to get her brother and SIL back in "da troof". But very shortly after they returned and started attending meetings, they were no longer on speaking terms. A study came in and had an opposed husband. Lots of drama with her husband, and she loved the JWs so much the marriage ended. Very shortly after that, new drama started with her squabbles in the congregation. It was a bizarre situation in that congregation where JWs typically will bad-mouth everything about the world, but these people all of a sudden couldn't get along and it became a war zone in the hall, even among spouses. Anyway, I wonder if things will start to get ugly among your JW family once they won't have you as the target of their drama.
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  coppersgirl67

  Yes this is true and have thought about it myself. Her step mom was my best friend and I studied with her and her hubby soon left her. I know for a fact that Sierra does not view her highly because she is quite selfish and not empathetic towards others and of course has nothing to good to say about me although others said she was obsessed with me years before? Yes weird....I realize more than likely I will have to truly have patience, enduring faith that God will help her see the real light and open arms for her to come to.....she will NOT have to do it alone as I did. But, my heart just aches right now and fear I cannot suffer yet another loss. I know I will and God has continued to give me strength beyond what is normal but I am beginning to feel drained under the emotion and even physical affects now because of the hurt.
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  mind blown

  Hi coppergirl...

  I'm going through the exact same thing @ this exact space in time. My daughter and I were very close and she's my only child. We don't have a close nit family so the JW's are all she has now. I can only give you suggestions that has totally worked for me.

  Firstly I'm the one who had to change. I had to make my mind over if that's what she wants for her life then so be it. I already lived my life and had to make my own mistakes. I had to get rid of the drive to save her from the WTS because all it was doing was causing more friction and harm then good. In the past I had told her about the UN, the WTS stealing Kingdom Halls away from congregations only to get the same response that others get which is " Jehovah will clean up the organization".

  Also, the WTS has JWs so programmed that if anyone, espcially those who used to be in say anything negative, HUGE ALARM BELLS go off in thier own head/soul and a wall goes up shutting them down.

  Since this is new for you both it's best not to say anything about the WTS, and if she does just listen to the BS. You have to gain her trust and not look like the ememy. Talk about anything else but but the WTS. After time has passed pick and choose your topics carefully. For instance, in coversation with my daughter not too long ago she was complaining about how screwed up many JW's are! I responed with "that's why going to therapy helps, because there's many things the bible can't fix and therapists have proper tools. Look at me for instance, I was more screwed up as a witness then I am now and you know that to be true". Her response was "well therapy is man made" So I responed back "So are you telling me going to the doctor is bad too, because seeing a doctor is man made too?" She looked at me and I could see her wheels spinning using her mind which is a good thing. I just left it at that.

  She also stopped contacting me in the very begining of the whole mess. So I sent her emails (and still do) and I call her just to check in and see how she's doing. At one point I even told her she needed to contact me just to let me know she's not dead somewhere, after all I'm her mother. And she started calling me more often. I always tell her I love her and even send smiley faces. Ha....she's starting to send me happy faces back!!

  Now she emails and calls me letting me know she's good and those conversations and turned into longer pleasent coversations. She's even starting to see for herself how the WTS is lacking in much.

  Steven Hassan also has many Youtube vids that you can watch for free. I also use his suggestions.

  My best to you hon. I know your heart is breaking, I really do. This requires a lot of patience.
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  coppersgirl67

  Thank you so much mind blown....how long have you been df and was she an adult when you were? I have been out for 10 years myself. How long before she started speaking to you again? My oldest daughter has not spoken to me in over 4 years. I don't even know where she lives and now that I have her phone number I just text I love you once in a while and that I am thinking of her. But she has never replied. Nor did she ever pick up the phone when I called.