Soon to be 18 and quit speaking to her mother- suggestions?

by Sanysfriend 95 Replies latest members private

• 

  adamah

  jgnat said-

  But when it is in reverse, parent to child, there are forces you can only guess at knowing. The parent has invested. The child and grandchildren represents a future the parent will never see. To enjoy those fruits, to watch them mature and grow, is the greatest blessing a parent can know. It pays to fight for it.

  Unfortunately as Backseat Devil explained, JWs are completely scripturally-based on interpreting the quite-consistent message found in the OT AND NT that God is at the top of the totem pole, and your family members and fruits of one's loins are disposable. It starts with Adam and Eve pointing the finger at others, reinforced by Abraham's willingness to offer his son Isaac as a sacrifice to God, the 10 commandments (rule #1 Love God above all else), the story of Job (lost his children, but was blessed with twice as many more), Jesus family values, etc, etc.

  Joining the JWs is going to be seen as an attractive option to those pre-disposed to 'hardening their hearts' to family members (likely due to their own dysfunctional upbringing, which resulted in their attachment disorder), cutting them off in the name of their worship and love for God.

  As said, no one who would consider placing God above their own family members would even consider becoming a JW, in the first place, after they learned of the policy (or, they tell themselves it won't happen to them, since narcissistic denial of risks is commonly associated with such personality types, and they tell themselves it'll NEVER happen to THEM!).

  JGnat, you said it "pays to fight for it". But HOW, exactly?

  What specific steps are you recommending the OP take in order "to fight"? As Bonnie Raitt sings, you cannot force people to do anything their heart don't feel.

  As I pointed out, simply crying and pleading with them about how much it hurts to be shunned by them has an inverse effect; to NOT do so doesn't imply denying the pain is felt, but acknowledging that showing it is only encouraging them to inflict MORE pain, in the hopes it's having its desired effect.

  Adam
• 

  jgnat

  This mother knows her children. She knows their hopes, dreams, aspirations, and strengths. She is one constant who will be their champion, open new doors of opportunity, and help them be all they can be. She will always be there for them, like a guardian angel, if they would only open their eyes.

  She can hold a figurative funeral for a child who is a write-off. But there are precious few of those in this world. These girls are not write-offs.

  There are so many things left to try, to speak to these young women's natural selves, to reach out, to suggest at a potential just imagined.

  It is not an evolutionary imperative to discard the flawed.

  http://www.ted.com/talks/boyd_varty_what_i_learned_from_nelson_mandela.html

  We know from this site that plenty of people wake up from the cultic dream. There is hope for these girls. I have offered ideas.
• 

  jgnat

  There are a million ways to say "I love you".
• 

  Band on the Run

  My brother reacted to the family turmoil and the Witnesses by going underground in a Maoist group. We had no idea where he was or even if he were alive for many years. I've written about the spouse who enables abuse by not stopping it. My mom was a superb mother in many ways but we certainly knew pain. The Witnesses were one form of the abuse. My brother mirrored my father's zealotry with the Witnesses. He never saw it. A few times he stopped in to visit which became momentous occasions. He was brainwashed. The tone of his voice, his inability to discuss his beliefs other than to parrot propaganda, singing Maoist songs at the dinner table. The social welfare agency said this was standard behavior for someone from a messed up family. The rest of us were forging ahead with normal lives. The social welfare agency that both helped and failed us was clear that she express no anger towards him. Rather, she was always to let him know he was welcome back into the family.

  We just wanted to scream that he was a Maoist version of a zealous Jehovah's Witness. He moved in with my mom to work in a local factory so he could organize. He never paid rent but once we found five pay checks. We even had to have a family meeting and discuss whether to call the FBI if we suspected violence. It was a real possibillity. We opted for the FBI but I recall the pain in my stomach as I chose. Many years passed. He refuses to discuss it at all but he returned to the fold. He is still a bit strange but he is the brother I knew now.

  I would suggest that you know your child and the circumstances. A mother's love means something. Many people leave the Witnesses. This community is proof. How do we know what will be the trigger? How could a mother not have open arms? You are not dealing with the average Witness but your particular daughter. Hey, I was full of rage towards my mom at eighteen. Many times I stormed out, telling her what a fool she was. My words concerning the Witness upbringing were strong. We could have big arguments. Both of us knew it was venting. Anyone at 18 is not fully grown up. You don't have to reform the Witnesses. All you need to do is let your daughter know you will be available. It is amazing how generation after generation of women decide to have children, knowing how vulnerable they will be.

  18 is a prime age for being judgmental and knowing it all. Dumping Witness relatives for being Witnesses is just as bad as Witness relatives dumping you.
• 

  ABibleStudent

  After reading this thread, I started to think how would I and others try to reason with a "Spiritually Strong" (non-thinking) JW to believe that Jesus Christ did not condone shunning and not associating with non-JWs. It may be a waste of time to reason with a JW, but who can predict what seed of doubt will grow in a JW.

  I did not want to hijack this thread, so I started the thread Shunning: How would You Overcome it?.

  Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

  Robert
• 

  BackseatDevil

  @jgnat "This mother knows her children. She knows their hopes, dreams, aspirations, and strengths. She is one constant who will be their champion, open new doors of opportunity, and help them be all they can be. She will always be there for them, like a guardian angel, if they would only open their eyes."

  That is assumption. And I personally have not found this to be true to a large percentage. The mother WANTS to know their hopes, dreams, etc. but the children do not even know themselves yet because they have not fully developed... so how could the mother know ANY of these things? Can she fortell the future? No. This is presumptuous at best. A person's life is not dictated by their mother's FEELINGS... it is dictated by the path they take on their own two feet. HOW a child learns on their own creates the human. How things effect them (death, loss, string of good luck, love, separation, etc.) are all details that carve and guide a person outside what the mother "knows".

  Therefore, a mother's projection... "guardian angel" of sorts is not only evolutionarily absurd and dangerous in preventing growth, it is offensive to the millions of children who have to grow up, live a life, move forward, and succeed without any mother AT ALL. I know it's hard, but necessity is not defined as the want of ONE person's interest (regardless of who that person may be). We have to think about everything and everyone else connected. Otherwise (as mentioned) it's selfish.

  Having a mother who gets it is GREAT... but it doesn't always happen in the "truth". SO I WILL SAY AGAIN: Family is nice. But it's biology. Mental health is better. Emotional strength is gold. If you can't find these values in your family... then GET A NEW FAMILY.

  .

  @Adamah - Cheers on the links!
• 

  BackseatDevil

  Per Adamah:

  Mark 3:31-34 Then Jesus’ mother and brothers arrived. Standing outside, they sent someone in to call him. 32 A crowd was sitting around him, and they told him, “Your mother and brothers are outside looking for you.” “Who are my mother and my brothers?” he asked. Then he looked at those seated in a circle around him and said, “Here are my mother and my brothers!
• 

  Band on the Run

  Yes, Jesus' said that in Mark. Yet Mary was present at the crucifixion. He noticed her and put her in John's care. The record is not one sided.

  As dysfunctional as my JW family was, they were family. I could never discard them. My extended family found a way to engage with the apostate members. There is no rule that applies to all instances. I believed that dealing with the Witnesses with some grace made me feel better about my stance. Granted once we were together, it was hard making conversation b/c their world was so isolated.

  Building a new life makes sense. One can build a new life and maintain ties. Giving up on someone reminds me of shunning itself.

  Some people here are very black and white thinkers. It reminds me when people would have relatives with schizoprhenia committed and just pretend that they never existed. Everyone must make these judgements for themselves, based on the circumstances and family members involved. We are talking about an adolescent. Eighteen is so young.

  It is very painful. I recently looked at JW.org and also read the post about calling Bethel about use of the term "mentally diseased." There are serous consequences to joining a cult. My concern is that the Witnesses are deliberately distorting their core beliefs. Do new members fully appreciate the terms of the religion? I keep meeting people in my life who were disfellowshipped for conduct that was never tolerated by the Witnesses. Having children out of wedlock is one item. Converts appear shocked that they are expelled. There is great need for an educational campaign. It is similar to getting married today and never anticipating divorce. These situations are forseeable.
• 

  BackseatDevil

  Mary is not present in the bible for the development of the Messiah... it was not her place to be there.

  @Band on the Run As dysfunctional as my JW family was, they were family. I could never discard them.

  That is your own burden. I am fortunatly am no longer encumbered with such. Boundaries, appropriateness, respect, and homophobia are big issues for me... and they are not with my JW family & friends. I apologize to you and Jgnat as that is where this is coming from. After 15 years... I'm at a point where I will say "sever all ties and evolve into your own human being already!" to anyone who asks. Being nice and thinking of them as "family" SOMETIMES backfires.

  I have wasted... over a decade being nice. They are still inappropriate, they still don't have respect for my boundaries... and they are still homophobic. Trust me. It doesn't always work.

  It's okay if you don't understand my words. I actually suffocated to death months ago. At this point I'm just an echo trying to warn others.
• 

  adamah

  BOTR said- Yes, Jesus' said that in Mark. Yet Mary was present at the crucifixion. He noticed her and put her in John's care. The record is not one sided.

  Actually, the record found in the Bible is summed up pretty well on this page reviewing Jesus' "family values":

  http://www.usbible.com/Jesus/jesus_family.htm

  Through it all, his family didn't disavow him; it was Jesus who disavowed his family. Let us not think that this was a special case. Jesus was setting an example for believers. His teachings on family matters makes the phrase, "Christian family values," a joke.

  The WTBTS understands the message of Jesus all too-well, as the closest Jesus EVER came to denouncing shunning was arguably in the example of the 'pericope of the adultress'. Of course, the WTBTS has removed that account from their latest revision of the NWT, where I discuss its applicability to shunning in an article called "Would Jesus Shun?").

  My summation is that it's important to move on with one's life and make new relationships, since the only one you can control in life is yourself (and sometimes that's hard for some, LOL!). I'd advise sending a one-way message of understanding and acceptance (without demanding or even expecting a response), letting them know that the decision to shun is THEIRS, alone, and it's only harming them (since they're complying with authority figure), but that our love is ALSO conditional (where unconditional love is a fallacy, IMO) since a loving relationship has to be reciprocative; that's impossible as long as they remain under the duress and influence of others.

  So as sad as it is, they have to find the power to liberate themselves, and perhaps it'll happen after a jarring life-changing event that wakes them up to TTATT; no one can force anyone to accept what they're not yet ready to accept.

  Adam