The " HIGHER EDUCATION" thread!!!

by DATA-DOG 63 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  SAHS

  The essence of all of this, I believe, is the overall interests of the particular individual, as opposed to the corporate mandates of any commercial or religious organization (like the one we all know).

  What comes to mind is a practical and comforting pragmatic philosophical perspective known as the “Serenity Prayer” (yes, I have been going to AA meetings), and it simply goes like this:

  “God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,

  The courage to change the things I can,

  And wisdom to know the difference.”

  In other words, I believe that the individual should be empowered to choose the best course in life for himself/herself, in accordance with his/her unique and overall best interests, and whatever may be the developments along the way or the results of any of those developments (expected or not), that individual would do best in all respects by simply being satisfied with and accepting of their own decisions and circumstances, and strive to simply live in the present moment (which, of course, is all anyone can do; you can resent and worry over the eternal past and future, but, logically, you can only live in the present).

  “DATA-DOG” is certainly quite perceptive in relating that having to work hard and tediously daily because of not having sufficient education relevant to one’s vocational aptitude – as well as having to work hard and tediously daily because of having that sufficient education – “both sound terrible.” Indeed, a healthy “balance is needed.” One can be wasted by a lack of vocational and financial success – but, also, one can be ruined by such “success” in compulsively striving (slaving!) for the unattainable and insatiable, just like a hamster on a wheel or a donkey running after that carrot.

  All said and done, I believe that at the end of the day, success, serenity, and well-being are certainly that which is in the eye of the individual beholder. . . . And they don’t have to relate to dollars and cents.
• 

  fulltimestudent

  I spend my current life studying, not to have a degree, but in an effort to understand the world of humans. (But, I admit it'll be nice to die with the letters BA (bullsh*t artist) after my name in my obituary).

  Actually, I have deferred graduation. Had a chat to my Univerities admin, I thought they might chuck me out once I'd accumulated enough credit points, but they've told me I can study for another 3 years, if I want to - so maybe I'll graduate after S1-2015 and then move onto a Master of Research degree.

  Edited to add:

  DD commented:

  Being raised as a JW, College was not an option.

  I wasn't raised as a JW, but university was not an option for me because, in those days, most people could not afford to keep their kids at university and pay the fees.

  Anyway, i was more interested in having fun and didn't focus very well. It was the JWs that gave me a reason to learn to focus and study. (I acknowledge the debt)
• 

  shadow

  Graduate Degree

  Ton of student debt. Still, my income has increased far more than the payments so seems worth it.

  Some people do well in a trade or running their own business, others not so much. I went to school in mid 90's when I was in mid 30's. Income has gone up by 800% in about 20 years. NOT rich because I was really poor to start with. School had zero effect on my spiritual outlook. Only problems I have had there is a result of looking too deeply into questions and not getting satisfactory answers.

  By the way, I work much less now than when I started school and get paid vacations, insurance, etc.

  IMO one or two GB members have a problem with it and enough of the rest go along with them.

  Why not demonize anyone working full time? I've worked plenty of places that were full of immorality and alcohol.

  How about anyone getting married or having children? They could work up a better scriptural basis for those than for higher ed.
• 

  freeflyingfaerie

  OK, I'll play along in the reindeer games~

  You expressed it well, DATA-DOG~

  Name: freeflyingfaerie, you know that one :)

  Age: 38 (in two days)

  Edumacation: vocational high school graduate, computer programming (ha ha, COBOL! (and before internet) and has gone from my head like through a sieve for lack of use. Didn't come in too handy when going from door to door.....now I'm quite illiterate with computers) (with honours...that was ok for a JW)

  College: Some. In its infancy. And doing mighty fine I might add (though it gets rough at times balancing out time for everything, and some teachers/classes are just better/more enjoyable than others)

  Employment: Independent massage business located in yoga/dance/spin studio, part-time. Also teach yoga in studio and private sessions at clients' home (not a major source of income). Currently awaiting state licensure (passed the prerequisite national exam after studying my tail off), then will apply for full-time work in this profession (which I learned years ago on-the-job), as pharmacy technician.

  So the plan is to live a healthy, modest lifestyle while raising my little ones (thankfully I do have help), and continue attending college at a somewhat slower pace. I see that to achieve a graduate college/university degree one must not attempt to sprint the whole way, but especially for people like myself make it a long-distance pace. I don't want to burn-out or lose sight of the life I have right in front of me with my girls. But, I'm not throwing in the towel either. Even though some of the coursework can be tedious, I am glad that I'm enriching my life and it will be nice to have a degree as a reward at the end. I do hope to be fluent in the profession I chose. I do hope to keep challenging myself and learning and growing as I have been. (in and out of the classroom).

  Do I wish I wouldv'e done this all sooner? I think so. But I can say that (even though sometimes I feel overwhelmed, as I now have more responsibilities than I would have in my late teens/twenties) I appreciate going to college after having been told for so long that it was a bad thing.

  Whatever happens along the way with school, I am glad to feel like the world has opened up and I have choices and opportunities~
• 

  Tech49

  Jack Harper, Tech49:

  Age: Mid 40's

  Highest Formal Education: HS

  Graduated late 80's when it was absolutely NOT in the cards to even THINK about college. Turned down multiple scholarships, after graduating with Honors, top of the class in HS. My poor student counselor was beside herself, and just couldnt understand it (cause it didnt make sense, that's why!). Huge aptitude towards architecture and engineering. Turned down an offer to intern at an Architects office upon graduation, right when computerized drafting and design was just breaking ground. It was an exciting time! I wanted it soooo bad, but turned it down, to do the "right" thing. UGH. Looking back, I hate the decisions I made when I was 18 and 19, based on what others told me, or pressured me to do, 'cause the "system is going to end VERRRRRY soon!". However, I knew for a fact that there was no way I was going to be a pioneer tho. I grunted it out in the construction field for about 10 years (with the young wife and i slaving away at nighttime janitorial jobs to make ends meet..), until I met an older man one day on a jobsite, and he gave me a good talking to, and made me see where my future was, career-wise, if I continued on the current path. He made me think.... alot. I still think about that conversation we had. Fast forward about 15 years.........

  Currently: Self employed, CEO and owner of a commercial company in the construction field, but at the higher end of the food chain, as architecture and engineering are a very important part of what we do. I made the decision to take extracurricular classes and CE courses in my industry about 10 years ago, yearly, to stay on top of things. The family and I live very comfortably, not rich, but fairly simply and comfortably. We get chastised for "working too much", or being "distracted" by "material things"...... sorry, how about YOU provide for my family then??? Morons.

  I see many, even just this last weekend, that are "pioneers" all their lives, and are just plain dumb. No skills, no hobbies, nothing. Washing windows, cleaning houses, mopping floors. They aren't happy, no fulfillment, no joy. Sad, just sad.

  PS.. My oldest just got accepted into the local Community College, studying Hybrid Vehicle Technologies, and Hybrid/Solar Utility Sciences. He's stoked, as are Vic and I !! No floor mopping for our kinfolk!
• 

  TTATTelder

  All of the good points that are being made here about living simple, not getting sucked into an education sales pitch, living a life of balance, etc - is not what gets typically taught in the org when it comes to education.

  Those points are great (and can be found and made much better by authors outside the organization). The WT points are this:

  you don't need any of "their " worldly education, we educate you better here, slave for the organization .....er....uhhh....I mean Jehovah, pioneering is the only career god approves of, etc

  Throw in a few "are you doing enough for God" guilt trips and a couple of "we don't want to see you get destroyed" fear tactics - and you've got some serious control games and/or a nice little watchtower lesson (same thing).

  I personally think it's a "keep them barefoot and pregnant" scenario. IMO, they don't want the r&f to ever find anything better or to ever learn to think for themselves. They also hope to convince people to work for the organization for no pay (full time service).

  Remember - they don't want any original thought. They don't allow it. Education produces thinkers.

  They may even convince themselves that keeping people down is in their spiritual best interests. Either way that is exactly what they are doing - intentionally keeping people down. The truth is, it makes the r&f easier to control and weild power over.

  It is sick and abusive.
• 

  Jen1

  Late 40s brought up in truth. Left school at 16. Did cleaning work. Pioneered into early 20s, at that time 90 hours a month. Tired and drained all the time! Managed to change to auxillery 60 hours month at the time. Then after a while was able to be a publisher.

  I have done cleaning work for years.
• 

  Separation of Powers

  Good thread...

  Like many, college was out of the question. The end was right around the corner and secular knowledge was NOT important. I applied for Bethel after high school and was rejected while a guy in my circuit was accepted even though he had gone to college and got his degree in computer science. Yeah, double standard...I know. So much for "we can teach a spiritual person to work computers but we can't teach a computer person to be spiritual" which is exactly what our CO said in the needs of the circuit that same year (yeah, kinda burnt in my mind and psyche).

  Years went by, I took courses and went to classes clandestinely. Pioneered for years making hilariously little money (funny I could even afford gas money). In time, though, my education paid off and I landed a good paying job with upward potential.

  In time, I returned to school. Not necessarily for me, but really to show THEM. I like knowledge. I like to understand. I don't like intolerance or stupidity, two of the most blatant things I have seen from many witnesses. Prejudice and ignorance. Both bred from a lack of understanding and what is worse...no desire to change.

  Example:

  I recall a sister saying, "Those buddhists worship those big idols of their god."

  I said, "That's not their god. It's the Buddha."

  "Well, he's their god!"

  "No, he's not their god. He is their exemplar, kind of like Jesus to a christian. He is or was the enlightened one. So, they follow his teachings."

  "But, he's still a god. They bow down to him."

  "No, they are merely paying him homage. Like the bible says the apostles and believers did to Jesus."

  "So, you are saying that Buddha is Jesus."

  "No, I am saying that he was considered and IS considered to be a holy man with an idea of how people can find answers to many of life's perplexing questions. Millions of people follow his teachings."

  "The DEVIL"S teachings!"

  "That's not what we are talking about. I am simply trying to correct the misperception."

  "So are you sticking up for them now?"

  "I am sticking up for correct understanding...nothing more. But, in the spirit of Buddha's teachings, why don't we just change the subject?"

  SOP

  You can imagine the rest of the conversation....
• 

  NewYork44M

  Education changed my life. I NEVER bought the society's stance on education. As an example of my attitude, I was working on my graduate degree while being an elder.

  I never advised anyone not to pursue a college education. However, I did not publicize my activities, but some knew within the congregation.

  My life now is wonderful because of education. I have a doctorate degree and a CPA, so does my wife. We are both tenured track accounting professors in a state school.

  Education is something that has the potential of changing your life. Treat it accordingly and with planning you have the potential of being very successful.
• 

  jwfacts

  I went to university in 1987, when it was unheard of in my district, and received a lot of negative comments. I do not work in the area that I did my degree in, but going to university has been important in my career, as having a degree has always been a requirement in selling complex software. I now have a great job that I enjoy, earn good money, and work with amazing people.

  http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/higher-education-university.php goes into a lot of detail on this topic, including providing statistics on JW income levels and education attained.