Did you ever have a supernatural experience?

by XPeterX 72 Replies latest jw friends

  • Wozwozza
    Wozwozza

    These days I try to find a scientific or just simply a logical reason for something odd happening instead of ,when I was a witness , blaming satan and the demonz. Quite often though there's an explanation when really looking into it instead of just being in fear .

    But ....here is a rough list of things my parents experienced and my self

    1 parents in England had poltergiest problems for some time - smashing things and throwing in front of them

    2 Mother could talk to woman friend in Canada by telepathy and confirm it by letters exchanged later and compared to notes I made at the time of telepathy ( this was when I was a child of about 8)

    3 Friend of my mother was a Yogi who levitated at our house ,I also flies bouncing away from him as if some shield protected him (weird)

    4 when a teenager my girlfriend cursed at a moving car with her friend and it smashed into a light pole (I did'nt witness this)

    5 At one stage when encouraged by my mother to develope powers with others I witnessed lights being turned on objects moving and a oija board session with other kids and my mother , acomplete letter was copied down from supposebly her dead friend but only when i cast my hand over the board with no one touching the up turned drinking glass used for a pointer

    And lots more ,these things led me to get the JWs to give me answers as to how this can happen ,I left years ago and some things I have found an explanation that I have'nt listed here hope this helps

  • DeWandelaar
  • Witness My Fury
    Witness My Fury

    Seraphim23 from what you wrote then I take it you also would only believe an extraordinary claim if it was backed up with evidence and witnesses? That is the sensible approach. Although in truth I doubt that is what you meant.

    If I told you I went down the road to the shop and bought some milk and packet of biscuits, you would in all likelyhood see no reason to doubt me as it is an ordinary circumstance.

    If I told you i went down the road to the shop and saw a tiger on the road and so had to run back empty handed (in the UK mind), you would likely remain doubtful unless it was corrberated by others. After all this scenario IS possible, but an extraordinary circumstance.

    If I told you that I went down the road to the shop and saw a man change into a werewolf and then run off into the woods and I had to flee back home again, your bullshit meter would (or should) be twitching on 10.

    Extraordinary claims DO require extraordinary evidence. Anecdotes mean nothing.

    Look at the UFO sector for evidence of a self fulfilling feeding frenzy with next to nothing to go on. Same goes for all the other supernatural stuff, even the best stories usually falter and fail under any real scrutiny.

  • Seraphim23
    Seraphim23

    When one listens to any anecdote from another, we listen in regard to what it means to us. So with a story like going to the shops and buying some items, it doesn’t mean anything to me unless I know you personally. This might be because some of the items I will eat or some other reason. Even my close friends don’t tell me things like that unless there is some relevance to something else they are telling me to me, even if it is to make me laugh because of some situation that happened, or unless I requested to know what they did during the day out of interest in them, on the grounds of friendship with would be a mutual interest in fact.

    Some people lie and make things up for attention as with a tiger anecdote for example but if they are a friend of mine, I will probably know if that is the kind of person they are and not believe them particularly if there are no witnesses. But what if they are not and still tell me the tiger story in seriousness? Then I might believe them. So credibility of the person themselves plays a part also. This credibility is only established though a long a fruitful friendship and doesn’t apply to most people. Even if the story is from a stranger and mundane, about biscuit shopping I probably won’t believe them because I will be wondering what they are getting out of telling a complete stranger such a boring thing.

    If a stranger or a trusted friend told me they saw a man change into werewolf, the issue with the stranger is obvious but the issue with the trusted friend is different. It’s not going to be me doubting their story but doubting their perception and interpretation of what they saw. Now multiple witnesses would help but not very much in this case because it isn’t to do with establishing credibility or honesty. An optical illusion can fool many people for example! The issue in this context is more about extraordinary claimed needing extraordinary evidence as you mentioned. The reason is because what is reported is not only unusual but contradictory to how the world works. The only way a man could be seen to change in such a way is if it was some kind of illusion. If an illusion then the integrity of how the physical world works is intact.

    However this fails to take account of the form and nature of paranormal occurrences and the extent of human knowledge about how the world works. Some people think that all things that exist are physical and so science can in theory explain them, even if we don’t have all the answers right now. Others disagree with this view, and there is some evidence for both sides of this debate. The issue is the interpretation of the evidence, which is a familiar theme of course in this context. It is quite possible however that the world works in more than one way or to put it another way the world is both physical and something nonphysical in nature. When specific information from some forms of paranormal phenomena is gained by two or more witnesses and independently of each other, and this gets confirmed by whoever it is in a position to confirm it, then it provides evidence not only of the phenomena but that the universe has more than one level of operation only one being physical in nature and amenable to scientific analysis.

    There are cases where verifiable information can be corroborated by more than one independent witness but as with all things, it’s the quality and credibility of the witnesses that counts more than evidence itself. This is even more the case with things that cannot be demonstrated in a lab in front of witnesses because what is seen or experienced is not operating according to physical laws. The laws are unknown. However they often have a theme which normally doesn’t include actual physical human beings turning into werewolves, because it isn’t about physics. Often it is to do with information perceived within a person than can sometimes be correlated to reality and witnesses.

  • FlyingHighNow
    FlyingHighNow

    Yes, and there was a group of people with me who all saw it and are alive today to tell the story. It's been my experience that if someone did not experience what you did, there will be doubt. I have had supernatural experiences, and yet when someone tells me about one, doubt is the first thing that creeps up. I'm lucky that my biggest experience was not mine alone.

  • Witness My Fury
    Witness My Fury

    In the end people will believe what they want to believe, that's why we have religion, it isnt based on evidence, it isnt based on facts, but it is still believed in by millions even in this time of unprecedented scientific knowledge and information exchange.

  • wallsofjericho
    wallsofjericho

    i experienced sleep paralysis once, like others here, I too thought it was a "demon attack" of some sort. I now know better.

    My mother used to go through my music collection whenever she had one of her infamous "demon attacks"

    Now when R&F talk about "demon" events I have no qualms making it known I think its all horse shit. JW's hate it when you do this, they want these events to deepen their faith, so when I tell them I believe otherwise they take offense.

    I've asked some: "how is it your [relative] had so many demon attacks over the years with the whole family serving Jehovah? Worshiping Jehovah is a protection for us, what was he/she doing to invoke the demons? I have never had a demon attack in my life. Why are they picking your relatives to attack?"

    Questioning the "spirituality" of their relatives usually quiets them down.

    My favorite is the old "garage sale item" story.... you know, where they bought an old tea pot or blanket at a garage sale and suddenly start having demon attacks and they threw the blanket in the fire and it wouldn't burn until they called out "Jehovah!" repeatedly.
    well what about your used car or old home? should I only buy new everything for the rest of my life??

  • cofty
    cofty

    Eyewitness testimony is woefully unreliable.

    People collude and our brains fill in gaps, they don't think they are dong it, but they do.

  • Ucantnome
    Ucantnome

    my father wasn't too pleased with having this sort of problem in the house and it led to a big argument with the person responsible. they were very skeptical about it.

    eventually they got rid of the items they had of there own accord and took them quite a long way from the house.

    we had other things happen some were witnessed by all of us some weren't.

    there was a different feeling in the house during this period.

  • Seraphim23
    Seraphim23

    FlyingHighNow, I think doubt is a good thing because unless the required corroboration is there, there may well be naturalistic explanations. Often people think that the existence of the supernatural contradicts the materialistic way the universe operates and how can that be considering the successes of science! But it’s also possible that two, as opposed to one foundation exists for the universe; two types of laws that operate in fundamentally different ways that do not contradict as a result. It is very much like what is seen with the fundamental differences between quantum mechanics and classical physics. They both make up the universe yet one seems to contradict common sense and yet the other doesn’t.

    As you say it is interesting how when one hears of another’s experience, even with the required evidences, and despite our own experiences for those who have them, it can be hard to except as true. I wonder if it is to do with the propaganda out there that continually tries to tell us that science and materialism is all there is to existence? I’m glad you had an experience like you did and I wonder if the very routes of religion and spirituality in the humans race itself was not simply to explain why the sun set for lack of a better explanation, but also, or rather because of phenomena that effected them that was known to not conform to the usual way things worked in the physical world?

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