Stands For True Worship. I am turning myself in......

by DATA-DOG 83 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • The Quiet One
    The Quiet One

    SFPW said: "I'm working right now, but I'll get back to you on this later this evening."

  • LoisLane looking for Superman
    LoisLane looking for Superman

    There are 9 ( nine ) and 1/2 hours left in the North Pacific before Sunday is over.

    It is 6:30 AM Monday morning in Tokyo. So SFTW doesn't live in Tokyo because a true worshiper, never lies... and SFTW said Sunday was the day.

    It is getting late though if SFTF lives in the UK.


  • The Quiet One
    The Quiet One

    That was quoted from 2 days ago, btw..

  • stillin

    Sad. Coulda counted it as a return visit

  • EdenOne



    must ... stay ... awake ..


    zzzzz zzzzzzz

  • truthseeker674

    If I were SFPW I might be intimidated by all you apostates waiting to pounce but then I realize so might shadrack, meshack and Obendigo have felt the same way. They did'nt fear. So go get em SFPW. Jehovah will protect you in the verbal fight. What can mortal man do to me?

  • wasblind

    Stand for pure........

    gird your loins, and fight the fine fight

    gird 'em good now. Ya hear ?

    Suit up , and boot up for theocratic warfare

    CHARGE !!!!!!!!!!!

  • Dis-Member

    I got the same response when I asked the elders heartfelt, sincere and very difficult questions. I told them that my very faith and future spiritual life lay in the balance. I needed answers like my life depended on it. Which it did.

    What did they do? Zilch. Completely nothing. No answers came at all. Not one. countless questions were simply ignored or deflected. They left me to die a slow and painful spiritual death. The very reason I am here is because these men, these mere men, plain and simple with nothing but the most rudimentary high school education between them had no answers to give at all. They cowardly slid off into the shadows and just acted like I did not exist.

    I felt the most complete and deepest betrayal from these so called shepherds of God. So very deeply disappointed.

    I take some of the responsibilty for having placed even a modicum of faith in mere men. Men who are and were as deluded as I was at one time.

  • braincleaned

    Is this serious... did they REALLY say that from the stage?? Wow.... I'm glad I came out today, on this site.
    I want nothing to do with these liars.

  • Stand for Pure Worship
    Stand for Pure Worship

    Good evening Data-Dog. I wanted to get back to you on Friday, but it just wasn’t feasible. Thanks for your patience. TheQuiteOne, you should probably be quieter and read more, as you would have noticed that I requested a delay for my response until sometime Sunday. Stillin, I’ve already stated I’m not counting any time here until it’s considered acceptable by the Branch. Data-Dog, looking at your question, and also the other thread that you linked, I’m under the impression that the beefs presented stem from both the WT have an exclusive view of themselves both doctrinally, and also their eschatological beliefs? I’ll still state my piece, but correct me if I misunderstood your question.

    In my opinion, proclamations of truth have to be weighed and compared to other so called truths in order to identify the pretenders. It has to be done according to a standard which in this case obviously would be the Bible. You stated that the criteria for our discussion could not include mentioning that the Bible Students had God’s word. That’s fine and your requirement is quite appropriate.

    I agree that it’s appropriate because it’s not like owning a Bible is something unheard of nowadays. You can find a Bible in the average home, hotels & motels (still the case? IDK), libraries, book stores, online (I prefer Bible Gateway to the Watchtower’s app in some circumstances), etc. Now granted, the proliferation of Bibles is greater in our day than it was during the Bible Students hey-day, I don’t think there was necessarily a shortage either. So again, your requirement is appropriate.

    What also should be appropriate to consider when questioning whether or not the Bible Students procured truth, one would have to examine what they were teaching. The usual suspects are going to come up, and naturally so. We’re talking hellfire, the Trinity, condition of the dead, along with other subtopics related to those common talking points. When it came to these subjects, the Bible Students were an anomaly in that they not only rejected these falsehoods, but also went out of their way to expose these erroneous teachings and beliefs in the public square. In that sense it can be said that The Bible Students, and what they eventually culminated into as the WT and JWs, have in fact procured truth.

    Now to keep it honest is that to say that the Bible Students and the WT have got it right all the time? Absolutely not, of course they’ve made mistakes over the years and likely will make more. However what’s noteworthy is their willingness to adjust their understanding when absolutely necessary. Proverbs 4:18 comes to mind which I know is a verse some of you here take umbrage with and I don’t entirely knock that as I think it’s been used to justify changes when the context of the verse on the surface doesn’t really support how the WT has used it. I think they know it too which is why they’ve lately begun moving away from that along with the phrase “new light” being replaced by, adjustments. I think far more appropriate verses to use when adjustments have been needed would be the thoughts found within Proverbs 2, and James 1:5-8.

    I have to say, all of this reminds me of something I read from an author that I’ve come to appreciate in recent years. He said, “The man who finds a truth lights a torch.” I agree. Truth is relative in the sense and trajectory of time. I’ve never lit an actual torch, but I imagine when in the midst of darkness a torch will only illuminate but so far. It will provide enough light to sustain us in the immediate area of darkness. Throughout the years we’ve acquired more torches of truth and have had to occasionally adjust our understanding as a result.

    Now the other thing Data-Dog, which I believe you and others have taken issue with, is the WT’s eschatological outlook. Again, I believe that when you talk about truth and this includes discussions about prophetic fulfillment, one has to take into consideration, time. To be more specific, “the times” in other words the time frame that an individual or organization has taken upon themselves an effort to determine where they stand within that era. I don’t see anything wrong with doing so either as Jesus encouraged his disciples to do so. - Matt 24:36-44

    Now, going back to credibility, I have to ask, did John the Baptizer have a credibility issue? I ask that from the perspective of our present day. Consider, John was very vocal in impressing upon the Jews a need to repent. He also declared prophetic messages that could be considered truth. (Matt 3:1, 2), however the scope and magnitude of what he was presenting was of a nature that he didn’t grasp even up until his tragic death. We can come to such a conclusion because even Jesus’ disciples didn’t quite grasp the roles they would play in the progress of Kingdom interests. Consider Luke 19:11, Acts 1:6, Matt 20:20-22, and Acts 10 for a few examples.

    Now going back to John, despite his lack of complete understanding of that which he was declaring, in Jesus’ eyes did John have a credibility problem? No, remember Jesus identified John as one of the key players involved in Malachi’s prophecy, specifically Mal 4:5, 6. So essentially Jesus gave John a cosign despite his declarations not coming into full fruition during the times that he lived and died. John’s work was a prelude, a fore gleam if you will. The Bible Students and in later years the WT have displayed the same anticipative nature of John the Baptist and Jesus’ disciples despite not fully grasping the full scope of prophetic fulfillment while in the midst of its developments. – Acts 1:7, 8

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