"The organisation is imperfect, but it doesn't affect my relationship with Jehovah"

by Alive! 160 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • SimonSays

    And there you go folks. You heard it from the horse’s mouth.


    This is your champion, good luck.

    Just like the


    1. A member of an ancient Jewish sect, distinguished by strict observance of the traditional and written law, and commonly held to have pretensions to superior sanctity.

    o A self-righteous person; a hypocrite.



    1. a member of a Jewish sect or party of the time of Jesus Christ that denied the resurrection of the dead, the existence of spirits, and the obligation of oral tradition, emphasizing acceptance of the written Law alone.

    of old, just looking out for their own will being as high priest instead in believing and trusting in God the ransom he brought forth for your benefit. Just as them that only used scripture to benefit themselves back then has it come again in you people here? TRUST in one hypocrite on what another hypocrite is saying. I love how the mind works.

    How insulting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • FayeDunaway
    Simon says, that post is actually about yourself.
  • CloseTheDoor

    done4good said:

    This is a good thread.

    Watcher, Close the Door, Jeramy:

    I understand where you all are coming from. Several years ago, I was where you are today to some extent. None of you would even be here, if you thought 100% obedience to the GB was necessary to be a JW. None of you obviously think that way, at this point in your lives.

    This is where things may get a bit harder, however. As you begin to question the veracity of the GB's teachings, and management style, at some point you need to ask, "If this is the truth, where did it all go wrong then?". What about that "light that gets brighter"? The GB taught you to judge other religions as "false", and their leaders as "corrupt". How do you know that the one you are still choosing to follow is not equally corrupt, just different?

    These are tough questions that you will need to ask, and there will be many more along the way. If you keep an open mind, you will find some of the answers initially disturbing. Try to understand what cognitive dissonance is, because this is what will prevent you from logically drawing the correct conclusions, and resorting to rationalizing your particular "understanding" of things. Also, don't expect to have all of the answers immediately. Try to become comfortable with the fact you are learning. Learning is good, always.


    Thanks for the thoughtful post. I was born in a time when loyalty to the GB was not enforced, or rarely hinted at, if any. We were told to verify everything published in the publications with the Bible. Sadly, this is no longer the case.

    I don't follow the GB. I am suspicious of 100% of what they say and do.

  • flipper
    The more any current JW researches on the Internet they will be exposed to or given access to much information indicating that the WT Society is a criminal organization. It cannot be denied anymore. People may try to deny it- but a rose is a rose is a rose. Any who stay within the organization and realize it's criminal - are really just deluding themselves into the old " ignorance is bliss " syndrome and being untrue to their own inner sense of well being or not heeding their conscience pricking at them. It's certainly an unhealthy way to live mentally , emotionally, or physically
  • Brother Jeramy
    Brother Jeramy

    I'm getting the distinct impression that certain details of what I wrote have either been missed or are being deliberately ignored by a number of commenters here.

    So, before I offer any responses to some of the comments made, allow me to recap some key phrases from my post yesterday so as to reinforce the points I was making. I wrote . . .

    The abusive "shepherd" is not the "flock."

    The control [the Governing Body] exerts over the brothers and sisters is reprehensible, and several of its key theological doctrines are false and have misled and continue to mislead millions.

    The Governing Body and its Watchtower Society is not our "religion."

    The Family has been infected by a number of false teachings and has been wounded by the harmful control of the "wolf in sheep's clothing."

    Remaining with the Family is not the same as endorsing the Watchtower Society, just as remaining in solidarity with abused siblings (though they may suffer Stockholm Syndrome) is not the same as endorsing the abuser who abused them.

    I've noticed many here do not see (or perhaps refuse to see) a difference between the Watchtower Society and the people who collectively are the faith Family known as Jehovah's Witnesses. There is, in fact, a huge difference. By way of analogy, one (the Governing Body) is the "wolf in sheep's clothing," the other (the Family of brothers and sisters) is the "flock." They are not one and the same (any more than the Russian people under the tight control of the Kremlin during the Soviet era were one and the same; one was a "sheep" the other was the "wolf")..

    I've noticed that the term "organization" is employed by many here to refer to the "wolf" and the "flock" as a single entity, as if mutual partners in the commission of a crime. I reject that characterization outright, and for reasons that I already explained in my comments yesterday. It is why I rarely ever use the term "organization." Instead, I use the term "Family" to refer to the brothers and sisters as separate from the Governing Body and its Watchtower Society that has taken control over a large part of the Family (though not all of it, to be certain). It's vitally important to make a distinction between the two.

    Allow me to offer another analogy. We can liken the situation of the Witnesses under the control of the Governing Body to the Soviet Union era: the Russian people under the tight control of the Kremlin were not in willing collusion (at least not the vast majority of them) with the fascism under which they themselves were suffering. They were, in a very real way, captives. The Russian people are analogous to Christian witnesses of Jehovah as a faith Family. There was the Soviet Union, which is analogous to the Watchtower Society. It was operated by the Kremlin, which is analogous to the Governing Body. The population captive within the Soviet sphere of influence as a politically controlled group is analogous to "Jehovah's Witnesses." The communist/fascist ideology under which the people were politically controlled is analogous to the appellation "the Truth." Yet as a culture, the people were Russians, not Soviets. Their home was Russia, both historically and geographically. "Soviet" was an imposed political designation. When the Soviet Union fell, the people as Russians, though greatly wounded, remained.

    This is how I see the situation. Yes, many have escaped, and no doubt for good reasons. I do not blame them for this, nor do I disparage them for it. Yes, many of those escapees (though certainly not all) have become driven by a bitterness that blinds them to reason. Yet many, like myself, remain. In my case, it is by deliberate choice. Because the Family is my home and my culture; it is my "Russia." I do not support the Watchtower Society (the "Soviet Union") or its policies ("the Truth") under the control of the Governing Body (the "Kremlin"). As a dissident I work patiently from within, with my brothers and sisters. I will not abandon them, nor will I unfairly categorize them as being in collusion with the Watchtower Society as one "organization" willfully fomenting a crime of religious fascism.

    So, having recapped and reinforced my key points on this particular matter, I'll be back later to respond to some of the responses to my remarks from yesterday.


  • Alive!

    Brother Jeramy, interesting points.

    Does it bother you to go on the ministry and invite others to join a family which is under the control of a GB which you don't seem to trust?


    The Governing Body and its Watchtower Society is not our "religion."....Brother Jeramy

    So your telling us "You have absolutely no clue how the WBT$ JW Religion Works"..

    You made up your own beliefs and that`s what the religion really is..

    Your delusional..

    You will Eventually be "Weeded Out" of the WBT$ JW Religion..


    ........................Image result for thats a fact jack

  • GoneAwol

    Nice post Bro Jeremy. The point you make here: "As a dissident I work patiently from within, with my brothers and sisters."

    I have a friend with whom I have regular discussions on this very subject. He actually wanted to, and became an elder to try and elicit change from within. He is young, only 44 and feels his youth and vigor against older, more tyrannical elders will modernize and perhaps even allow bro's and sis. to think more freely etc.

    He quietly celebrates his childrens birthdays and feels everyone should partake of the emblems. Among other things I might add.

    My question to you, as it was to him.

    1. What do you hope to change as you work patiently from within?
    2. Do you think realistically the GB will admit to errors past and seek change themselves?
    3. If the 'life giving waters are poisoned, how much of it will you allow your own bro's and sis. to drink before you say 'ENOUGH!' Or will you watch them drink in everything the GB promote as truth, and still claim you are helping them as a loving brother?
    4. Will you watch your own family drink the poison, knowing and feeling how you do? Looking forward to your thoughts.
  • Brother Jeramy
    Brother Jeramy

    Alive, you asked . . .

    Does it bother you to go on the ministry and invite others to join a family which is under the control of a GB which you don't seem to trust?

    When I go out in field service, I never push Society literature. I use a Bible (not always the NWT), I share the Good News. This has only a handful of times ever raised the curiosity of some brothers and sisters, though never with any adverse fallout. I have by and large over many years made this a successful method, and it is one that many in my region have taken to.

    As for folks I have studied with, especially in most recent years, I use Society literature sparingly and judiciously. Not all of it is bad. Much of it, in fact, is excellent and useful as a tool for examining Scripture, especially on issues of Christian morality, spirituality, and ethics. But it is not the foundation of my studies. The Bible and reason are my foundation.

    One of the first things I always share with new studies is Mark 12:29-31:

    Jesus answered: “The first is, ‘Hear, O Israel, Jehovah our God is one Jehovah, and you must love Jehovah your God with your whole heart and with your whole soul and with your whole mind and with your whole strength.’ The second is this, ‘You must love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.”

    I specifically emphasize "with your whole mind," as opposed to believing with just a portion of it. I give the added encouragement to "trust but verify," just as the Bereans did (Acts 17:11). To this, I encourage everyone I study with that "the Truth" does not reside in any group, nor is "the Truth" the property of any organization. Instead I emphasize that Jesus alone is "the truth."

    When new studies begin attending meetings at the Kingdom Hall, I reinforce to them that they are associating with a people of faith, not a religious corporation (i.e., an "organization"). In each case they easily understand the distinction. I then show them paragraph 24 on page 183 of the Bible Teach book (chapter 18) that reads, in part:

    Remember, too, that you have made a dedication to Jehovah God himself, not to a work, a cause, other humans, or an organization.

    I use the Society's own literature to drive home the true emphasis of who we are truly associating with and Who we are truly dedicated to.

    So far my preaching and teaching methods discussed above have, with Jehovah's help, been successful.

  • CloseTheDoor

    Remember, too, that you have made a dedication to Jehovah God himself, not to a work, a cause, other humans, or an organization.

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