"The organisation is imperfect, but it doesn't affect my relationship with Jehovah" (page 7)

Brother Jeramy

GoneAwol, you asked . . .

What do you hope to change as you work patiently from within?

The best answer I can give is this: I have absolutely no interest in trying to reform "the Society" or to engage in any type of reform movement. My goal is, very simply, to share the Good News truthfully, to live a dedicated Christian life truthfully, to encourage my brothers and sisters truthfully, and in all of it to trust Jehovah to accomplish his will as he sees fit.

GoneAwol

Again, nice post Bro Jeremy.

While I wait for your response to my other post, can I ask you why, although you direct people to serve God and Christ alone and not an organisation or man, you will allow them to be baptized into an organisation that has the following oaths at point of baptism?

The first question is:
On the basis of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, have you repented of your sins and dedicated yourself to Jehovah to do his will?

The second is:
Do you understand that your dedication and baptism identify you as one of Jehovah's Witnesses in association with God's spirit-directed organization? Having answered yes to these questions, candidates are in a right heart condition to undergo Christian baptism."

How do you explain that to Bible Studies? And, I might add, NOT come across as someone who has deceived and hoodwinked them into dedicating themselves to an organisation?

Enjoying your thoughts! GA

OUTLAW

When new studies begin attending meetings at the Kingdom Hall, I reinforce to them that they are associating with a people of faith, not a religious corporation (i.e., an "organization")....Brother Jeramy

So you lie to them about what the religion really is..

You using someone else`s Shop, to sell "Your" Merchandise..

Your as crooked as the WBT$..

GoneAwol

Thanks Bro Jeremy, I can appreciate someone sharing truths with others in an effort to help make lives better and more fulfilled.

You stated earlier: The control [the Governing Body] exerts over the brothers and sisters is reprehensible, and several of its key theological doctrines are false and have misled and continue to mislead millions.

If that is the case, how can you as a thinking person, invite others into a 'Family' as you call it, that is being misled and has misled millions?

If, in truth, you are really helping others to see truth, surely you would be showing prospective bro's and sis. the false doctrines of the organisation, not encouraging them to be part of a 'reprehensible' org?

Cheers.

Alive!

Thank you for your answer Bro J.

For me, I can't see how that works when it comes to the dedication vow.

Forgive me, but it seems somewhat deceptive, although I can see your intentions are pure in your eyes.

So, you say you've had much success. I'm guessing you've brought folk to baptism?

Do they copy your style of ministry? How do they cope with the Ministry school and being taught to preach JW style...which is all about the publications?

ToesUp

Brother Jeramy

I think you should write a letter or better yet give the Branch a call and let the GB know how you truly feel. Like you have on here. Give them your true name and congregation you are associated with.

Let us know how that works out for ya.

Brother Jeramy

GoneAwol, you asked . . .

Can I ask you why, although you direct people to serve God and Christ alone and not an organisation or man, you will allow them to be baptized into an organisation that has the following oaths at point of baptism?

The short answer is, I don't.

There is only one recent example I can refer to (this comes with the acknowledgment that the majority of my studies have not progressed to baptism; this is typical though for studies). A young man I studied with wanted to get baptized. We had studied for about a year, and he was aware of the issues with the Society, the Governing Body, etc. He completely embraced the distinction between the Family of brothers and sisters versus the Watchtower Society. To his credit also, he was very self-informed not only about Jehovah's Witnesses but also about the many traditions within Christendom. It also helps that my congregation is filled with incredible brothers and sisters, a number of whom are fellow dissidents, who are wonderful demonstrations of balanced faith in the midst of stormy times.

And so the time came for me to discuss with him what his baptism at the Circuit Assembly would look like. This included examining the problem of the current baptism formula imposed by the Watchtower Society. It is a formula I reject. He did as well. And then he of all people came up with an idea that I hadn't ever considered: baptize him privately before the C.A. While I wasn't immediately convinced this was entirely necessary (since Jehovah isn't bound by man-made formulas, but instead knows the heart of the one being baptized), I agreed to do it (and largely because, per Acts 8:36-38, it was not my place to prevent him).

And so after much prayer, and in the presence of an older brother and sister (a dissident couple), I baptized him privately in the name of the Father, Son, and holy spirit. The four of us later celebrated with a meal together.

When the time came for the Circuit Assembly, he underwent the immersion into water, but he did so having never said "Yes" to the two questions asked of the baptism candidates from the platform. This he did at his own insistence, for his own reasons, and under no pressure or influence from me.

Private baptisms are not new. It has been happening for decades in lands where the preaching work is banned. But this was the first (and so far only) "dual immersion" I had ever known of or been part of, though I suspect this is not the first time something like this has been done.

GoneAwol

Fantastic response Bro Jeremy!

Can I ask?

How did the new bro. get on with his questions prior to baptism with the elders? Did he feel the need to be untruthful? (A form of spiritual warfare against the org perhaps?)

Knowing what he knows about the org, why didnt he run a mile from the false teachings? Did he only get baptized because of his association with yourself? (perhaps a bit personal I realize)

Why get baptized in spirit and truth to only then follow direction from an org that is no better than, say, the Catholics? Hasnt he, in effect, back peddled on spirit and truth?

Great discussion, thank you !

Brother Jeramy

GoneAwol, you asked . . .

How did the new bro. get on with his questions prior to baptism with the elders? Did he feel the need to be untruthful? (A form of spiritual warfare against the org perhaps?)

On this I cannot go into detail except to say that in my congregation this was not an issue.

GoneAwol

Interesting response! Is unity with the org an issue in your congregation or just certain people? Can you please elaborate as much as is safe on HOW this state came to exist with these ones?

What is the aim or goals within this group?

Cheers

"The organisation is imperfect, but it doesn't affect my relationship with Jehovah"

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